Author Topic: When to use hop substitutions.  (Read 858 times)

Offline james_cornell

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When to use hop substitutions.
« on: January 02, 2015, 01:15:45 AM »
I'm using a recipe that calls for a fair amount of Amarillo hops.  I still have some in my freezer along with Cascade and Centennial which are both listed as possible substitutions for Amarillo.

In this recipe, Amarillo is used at 15min, 5 min, flameout and dryhop.  Since all these times are primarily used for aroma, does it matter where I substitute?

Also, say I were substituting Nugget for Warrior Hops, which in this recipe is used at 60 min then again at flameout, How would I decide at which stage I use the substitution and which I use the Warrior? Do hop characteristics other than Alpha Acid % matter more later on when adding for aroma, or do they make just as much difference early in the boil when adding for bitterness?

Offline Stevie

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Re: When to use hop substitutions.
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2015, 01:32:32 AM »
I would use nugget for warrior at a 1:1 based on AA at 60min. I don't think you would notice a difference at all. I use nugget as my primary bittering hop as I have a lot of it right now.

The others are all personal preference. I think you would notice less of a difference subbing out at 15 compared to the other additions.

All that said, I use whatever I have on hand at the time. I tend to keep mosaic, Simcoe, cascade, centennial, and ctz around at all times.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: When to use hop substitutions.
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2015, 02:07:52 AM »
Yep, you can sub in Cascade and Centennial interchangeably for Amarillo. As for the last question, AA% is no real indicator of aroma. Some high AA hops (Columbus, Simcoe, Mosaic) have excellent aromas where others don't and just serve as bittering hops. And actually noble hops which are sought after in lagers for their fine aromas are often very low in AA.
Jon H.

Offline james_cornell

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Re: When to use hop substitutions.
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2015, 02:20:01 AM »

The others are all personal preference. I think you would notice less of a difference subbing out at 15 compared to the other additions.


Is this because the aromatic oils boil away?

Im assuming that since the aromatic oils boil away, I would use substitution hops early in the boil where characteristics other than AA don't matter as much since they boil away, and the hops the recipe calls for later.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: When to use hop substitutions.
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2015, 02:29:16 AM »
Yes the oils are volatile and flash off, when you dump them in the boil and the room fills with hoppy goodness, that is the oils leaving the party.

You can look at the numbers in this publication for each hop, and go by the averages for a hops oil. Then compare with your subs and adjust the amounts to match the oils for 1 oz. For example, Citra has high oil content, if I wanted to sub Mosaic, I might have to use close to 2 times the amount to match the oil content.

http://www.usahops.org/graphics/File/HGA%20BCI%20Reports/Variety%20Manual%207-24-12.pdf
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: When to use hop substitutions.
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2015, 02:31:46 AM »
Absolutely, the oils do boil away. The majority of aroma boils off in 15 minutes or so.

EDIT - I agree that oil content is a good indicator of aroma intensity.
Jon H.

Offline erockrph

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Re: When to use hop substitutions.
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2015, 02:42:06 AM »
Some hops seem to provide a smoother or rougher bittering character for a 60-minute addition of similar IBU's. A hop like Magnum is pretty smooth and neutral when used for bittering, while Chinook tends to be a bit rougher. But, in general, you can substitute a similar hop with little noticeable difference for an early boil addition.
Eric B.

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: When to use hop substitutions.
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2015, 03:14:22 AM »
Derail - Along the lines of Jeff's posted link, with the new generation of aroma/flavor hops coming out regularly, there are some seriously high oil contents on some of these. YVH has the Experimental Grapefruit and Experimental Pine Fruit hops both at over 3.0ml/100g and I think I've seen Equinox at around 2.8 IIRC, to name a few. Lots of great new options. Very cool.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 04:07:38 AM by HoosierBrew »
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Offline erockrph

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Re: When to use hop substitutions.
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2015, 06:35:16 PM »
Derail - Along the lines of Jeff's posted link, with the new generation of aroma/flavor hops coming out regularly, there are some seriously high oil contents on some of these. YVH has the Experimental Grapefruit and Experimental Pine Fruit hops both at over 3.0ml/100g and I think I've seen Equinox at around 2.8 IIRC, to name a few. Lots of great new options. Very cool.
Polaris is up around 4. It's almost a waste to try to use any other hops with it because it's so potent.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: When to use hop substitutions.
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2015, 06:51:56 PM »
Derail - Along the lines of Jeff's posted link, with the new generation of aroma/flavor hops coming out regularly, there are some seriously high oil contents on some of these. YVH has the Experimental Grapefruit and Experimental Pine Fruit hops both at over 3.0ml/100g and I think I've seen Equinox at around 2.8 IIRC, to name a few. Lots of great new options. Very cool.
Polaris is up around 4. It's almost a waste to try to use any other hops with it because it's so potent.

Holy crap. Is it any good, though? That's one I haven't used yet. Yeah, it would overpower anything.
Jon H.

Offline erockrph

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Re: When to use hop substitutions.
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2015, 07:11:43 PM »
Derail - Along the lines of Jeff's posted link, with the new generation of aroma/flavor hops coming out regularly, there are some seriously high oil contents on some of these. YVH has the Experimental Grapefruit and Experimental Pine Fruit hops both at over 3.0ml/100g and I think I've seen Equinox at around 2.8 IIRC, to name a few. Lots of great new options. Very cool.
Polaris is up around 4. It's almost a waste to try to use any other hops with it because it's so potent.

Holy crap. Is it any good, though? That's one I haven't used yet. Yeah, it would overpower anything.
For 3 gallons of IPA, I used one ounce in the boil (part FWH, part hop stand) and one ounce for dry hops, and it was like "Instant IIPA" - all I could discern was an intense resin note. There were 6 ounces of other hop varieties along with the two of Polaris, but they just got totally washed out.

It's over 20% AA, so it's really tailor-made for IIPA's. I have no idea what it tastes like at a more moderate hopping level.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: When to use hop substitutions.
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2015, 07:18:39 PM »
Derail - Along the lines of Jeff's posted link, with the new generation of aroma/flavor hops coming out regularly, there are some seriously high oil contents on some of these. YVH has the Experimental Grapefruit and Experimental Pine Fruit hops both at over 3.0ml/100g and I think I've seen Equinox at around 2.8 IIRC, to name a few. Lots of great new options. Very cool.
Polaris is up around 4. It's almost a waste to try to use any other hops with it because it's so potent.

Holy crap. Is it any good, though? That's one I haven't used yet. Yeah, it would overpower anything.
For 3 gallons of IPA, I used one ounce in the boil (part FWH, part hop stand) and one ounce for dry hops, and it was like "Instant IIPA" - all I could discern was an intense resin note. There were 6 ounces of other hop varieties along with the two of Polaris, but they just got totally washed out.

It's over 20% AA, so it's really tailor-made for IIPA's. I have no idea what it tastes like at a more moderate hopping level.

I guess you could add a 1/2 oz (5 gallons) in a dry hop blend to get some dank/resiny character and balance out fruitier hops. Sounds like it could be a good bittering hop for IPA/IIPA - I'm betting it's a coarse IPA bitterness. Sounds powerful.

EDIT  -  Ok, this might be the top of the oils chain right now. Missed it on YVH - Experimental Nuggetzilla, rated at 4.0 - 6.0.  The profile actually sounds pretty good. Don't see it playing well with others, though.

http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/ExpNuggetzilla1Pound_p/hopsexp-nuggetzilla-2014crop.htm
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 09:13:10 PM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.