[pete b]

I do think beer is different because its something a lot of people do choose based on where its made.

Maybe, but how much does it really play into day to day beer drinkers.

Me: "I've never seen this, I'll ask for a taste or try a bottle."

Not me: Oh, this guy can't afford to build his own joint and didn't have the ability to write a witty kickstarter campaign. His beer must be crap."

I don't think "why does it matter?" is the right question. The fact is that given a lot of choices many people DO choose based on what they think is made in house or locally. Given 5 saisons that all sound good I certainly would try the in house one first. Would I be harmed? Not really, but this would happen hundreds of time and the brewer who is honest would be hurt.

[Stevie]

What makes it disingenuous?

I know a burger place that has private label beer, the owners and an employee came up with the recipes and through trial batches dialed it in. Once set the contracted with a local to brew it. Is it disingenuous to call it joes burger place ipa?

Now they don't call themselves a brewpub, and I'm sure that can vary from state to state, but generally I would agree that a brewpub implies on premises.

[pete b]

What makes it disingenuous?

I know a burger place that has private label beer, the owners and an employee came up with the recipes and through trial batches dialed it in. Once set the contracted with a local to brew it. Is it disingenuous to call it joes burger place ipa?

Now they don't call themselves a brewpub, and I'm sure that can vary from state to state, but generally I would agree that a brewpub implies on premises.

Its fine to call it that. I don't think anyone is proposing that its not OK so long as they don't state or imply that its made there. Not stating on the label that "Joes Burger Place IPA" is made by "Sally's Brewery" might imply that. And  beer lovers who hear Joe makes his own beer might choose it over Tim's Burger Joint even though Tim actually has a better selection of local brews, hurting Tim's Burger Joint and Hometown Brewery Inc. And this dynamic probably happens a lot in Belgium with its beer tourism. BTW its fun to make up fake business names.

[Stevie]

But tap handles aren't labeled with contract info as far as I have seen (not CA or TX). I'm sure the keg collar is labeled, but how would a person at the bar know. I've never seen "Lone Star, brewed locally by Miller in Fort Worth, owned by Russians" on a menu or tap handle.

It doesn't matter if the seller busted his back making it or not. Do you think Jim Koch gets down and dirty on thousand barrel batches? Hell no, he has employees. In my opinion, contracts can be seen the same way.

Chimay, Westy, duvel and the like are not going away anytime soon. They shouldn't be so scared.

[pete b]

But tap handles aren't labeled with contract info as far as I have seen (not CA or TX). I'm sure the keg collar is labeled, but how would a person at the bar know. I've never seen "Lone Star, brewed locally by Miller in Fort Worth, owned by Russians" on a menu or tap handle.

It doesn't matter if the seller busted his back making it or not. Do you think Jim Koch gets down and dirty on thousand barrel batches? Hell no, he has employees. In my opinion, contracts can be seen the same way.

Chimay, Westy, duvel and the like are not going away anytime soon. They shouldn't be so scared.

I've seen that kind of info on menus and bottles.

[majorvices]

There's a lot more risk in opening a brewery than in contract brewing. And while both can invest in the local economy chances are the brewery is going to have far more invested in the local economy than the contract brewery. So, Steve - turn the tables a bit and let me ask the question: What's wrong with me wanting you to know that the guy competing against me isn't really a local brewery?

[Stevie]

Nothing is wrong with that, but does that guy need to tell everybody by sticking it on the label? I'm not saying it is a Scarlett Letter or anything, I feel it is simply unnecessary.

And I don't mean to take anything away from your efforts. You built your empire, and from the press I read every other week, your kicking tail.

[Stevie]

And in the U.S., I'm sure the reason contracted labels get labeled is for the taxman. All roads lead back to the taxman.

Altruism does not exist in legislation, including consumer protection. Follow the breadcrumbs far enough and somebody is making money somewhere.

[klickitat jim]

All beer is brewed locally. If I had an issue I'd just make it clear exactly where MINE was locally brewed and let the other guy leave his generically stated.

[Frankenbrew]

And in the U.S., I'm sure the reason contracted labels get labeled is for the taxman. All roads lead back to the taxman.

Altruism does not exist in legislation, including consumer protection. Follow the breadcrumbs far enough and somebody is making money somewhere.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Thirsty_Monk]

Nothing is wrong with that, but does that guy need to tell everybody by sticking it on the label? I'm not saying it is a Scarlett Letter or anything, I feel it is simply unnecessary.

And I don't mean to take anything away from your efforts. You built your empire, and from the press I read every other week, your kicking tail.

A lot of business is build on trust and good will. If my marketing campaign advertise that I am XYZ then I better be XYZ because when people find out I will lose the trust and they will never buy my product again.

Before I open a brewery I explore the contract brewing plan and I always fall short that I did not brew the beer. I could not tell my story the way as I wanted.

Some people might not care and it is short term gain even thou there is no money to be made in contract brewing.

At the end of the day it is what you feel is right. If you are honest you attract people, people like you and admire what you do.

[majorvices]

And in the U.S., I'm sure the reason contracted labels get labeled is for the taxman. All roads lead back to the taxman.

Altruism does not exist in legislation, including consumer protection. Follow the breadcrumbs far enough and somebody is making money somewhere.

The TTB is definitely about making money but they are also needlessly bureaucratic just for the sake of being so. They told us we couldn't name a beer "Tennessee Pearl" because the name "implied that we were from Tennessee" and was "disingenuous" even though I live in the Tennessee Valley and the Tennessee River runs just past Huntsville and people pull Tennessee River Pearls out of the river near here. Not sure they (the TTB) are making money off that anyway except it just gives someone a reason to say "NO" which is a powerful word. In fact, I think they are losing money because it takes more man power to reject a name and then approve another one, or have the name rejection be rebutted.

In the case of making contract brewers put the name of where the beer was brewed and bottled, I think that's one of the good things the TTB has actually done and it doesn't bother me one bit. I imagine it vexes the contract brewers greatly because it means they can't pretend they are something they are not - a real brewery. As brewers, we all know that the real key to brewing is the craft of the actual process of brewing, not really the recipe. The recipes are great but it is the skill at brewing them that we are really all proud of.

I imagine that this is exactly the way the Belgian Brewer's feel. They just want credit for being an actual craftsman, for doing the hard work, having the calloused hands and the bent backs and the "know-how" that it takes to bring a beer from concept the finished art. I don't think it is snobbery at all, Just credit where credit is do. And if you brew 70 miles down the road then maybe your not a local beer after all.

[pete b]

And in the U.S., I'm sure the reason contracted labels get labeled is for the taxman. All roads lead back to the taxman.

Altruism does not exist in legislation, including consumer protection. Follow the breadcrumbs far enough and somebody is making money somewhere.

Truer words have never been spoken.

This seems unlikely. I'm sure Steve in TX would agree. The speeches Churchill made during WWII were hot stuff. Ghandi and the Dalai Lama certainly spoke words, however foreign, that rang truer. Lincoln's Gettysburg Address comes to mind, as does the speech that Shakespeare delivers us Via Henry V just before The Battle of Agincourt. I've even heard Steve utter sager words in reference to fermentation temperatures. And let's not forget the many references to Western literature and Mythology in just the footnotes to T.S. Eliot's "The Wasteland".
( BTW I'm being faux dickish here for fun)

[majorvices]

And in the U.S., I'm sure the reason contracted labels get labeled is for the taxman. All roads lead back to the taxman.

Altruism does not exist in legislation, including consumer protection. Follow the breadcrumbs far enough and somebody is making money somewhere.

Truer words have never been spoken.

This seems unlikely. I'm sure Steve in TX would agree. The speeches Churchill made during WWII were hot stuff. Ghandi and the Dalai Lama certainly spoke words, however foreign, that rang truer. Lincoln's Gettysburg Address comes to mind, as does the speech that Shakespeare delivers us Via Henry V just before The Battle of Agincourt. I've even heard Steve utter sager words in reference to fermentation temperatures. And let's not forget the many references to Western literature and Mythology in just the footnotes to T.S. Eliot's "The Wasteland".
( BTW I'm being faux dickish here for fun)

I didn't take him literally, but bravo non-the-less!

[kmccaf]

And in the U.S., I'm sure the reason contracted labels get labeled is for the taxman. All roads lead back to the taxman.

Altruism does not exist in legislation, including consumer protection. Follow the breadcrumbs far enough and somebody is making money somewhere.

Truer words have never been spoken.

This seems unlikely. I'm sure Steve in TX would agree. The speeches Churchill made during WWII were hot stuff. Ghandi and the Dalai Lama certainly spoke words, however foreign, that rang truer. Lincoln's Gettysburg Address comes to mind, as does the speech that Shakespeare delivers us Via Henry V just before The Battle of Agincourt. I've even heard Steve utter sager words in reference to fermentation temperatures. And let's not forget the many references to Western literature and Mythology in just the footnotes to T.S. Eliot's "The Wasteland".
( BTW I'm being faux dickish here for fun)

Why only the footnotes? I mean, April is the cruelest month...or rainiest. Both?