Author Topic: I hope I'm not screwed  (Read 1077 times)

Offline DW

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
    • View Profile
I hope I'm not screwed
« on: January 04, 2015, 03:24:29 AM »
So I brewed a big delicious bock for a friend's kegerator.  I just found out that he has a Sanke like system that I know nothing about.  He had rented a keg from a local brewery that was previously filled with commercial beer.  Now it's empty and he wants to use that to put my beer in.  After my beer is done he plans to return the keg (not exactly ethical, I realize this).  Can I even do this?  He sent me a picture of the keg and I can't even figure out how to get the beer in.  I have always used cornelius kegs.  It looks like there is a metal ball obstructing the hole you would drain the beer into.  Any help would be ideal

Offline dzlater

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 521
  • Dan S. New Jersey
    • View Profile
Re: I hope I'm not screwed
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2015, 10:45:48 AM »
I'm no expert in this, but I would think it would be easier to adapt his kegerator to use a corny keg then trying to fill his Sanke keg.
Dan S. from NJ

Offline Slowbrew

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2432
  • The Slowly Losing IT Brewery in Urbandale, IA
    • View Profile
Re: I hope I'm not screwed
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2015, 01:36:41 PM »
No hands on experience with sanke kegs but it is my understanding to fill one you need to depressurize the keg and remove the spear.  Once cleaned, you just run the beer in as you would a corny and reinstall the spear.

Ethically?  You are destroying the keg so it isn't like making a keggle with it. 

As long as he returns the keg, eventually, it isn't like he's stealing it.  A grey area on the ethical standards but not too bad.   ;)

Paul
Where the heck are we going?  And what's with this hand basket?

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4439
  • Play Nice
    • View Profile
    • Harvey's Brewhaus
Re: I hope I'm not screwed
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2015, 01:55:39 PM »
doesn't the rented imply you own it if you don't return it ??? keg deposits usually built into the equation I thought.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline bengelbrau

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
    • View Profile
Re: I hope I'm not screwed
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2015, 02:14:58 PM »
Going from a 16 year old memory... The ball is the valve holding pressure in the keg. Push that down to relieve the pressure. I used a flat pry bar stuck under the "ears" to unscrew the spear. The ones I opened were reverse threaded.

Offline DW

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
    • View Profile
Re: I hope I'm not screwed
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2015, 03:06:12 PM »
Yeah, I was wondering if you could just push that ball valve down and squirm a tube through enough to rack the beer in? 

Offline bengelbrau

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
    • View Profile
Re: I hope I'm not screwed
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2015, 03:08:28 PM »
Yeah, I was wondering if you could just push that ball valve down and squirm a tube through enough to rack the beer in?

Don't think so. There's not a lot of space there, and the spring holding the ball is pretty strong.

Offline tommymorris

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2100
  • Tommy M.
    • View Profile
I hope I'm not screwed
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2015, 03:38:37 PM »
There are videos on the web that show how to remove the top of the keg. It looks like a pain. I would fill ball locks and buy an adapter or change the coupler. Not sure but I bet for his set up you can unscrew the sankey coupler and screw on ball lock couplers.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 04:25:54 PM by alestateyall »

Offline erockrph

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6229
  • Chepachet, RI
    • View Profile
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: I hope I'm not screwed
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2015, 06:38:22 PM »
doesn't the rented imply you own it if you don't return it ??? keg deposits usually built into the equation I thought.
Not at all. Otherwise you would call it "bought" instead of "rented".

Keg deposits are nowhere near the actual replacement cost for a keg. They are simply an incentive to return them. Think of it this way, if you pay a $500 security deposit on an apartment, but do $10,000 in damage to it, you still owe the owner $9500. A deposit doesn't convey ownership. The brewery still owns the keg. If you don't return it you have stolen property.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4439
  • Play Nice
    • View Profile
    • Harvey's Brewhaus
I hope I'm not screwed
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2015, 06:47:48 PM »
Huh. I have few kegs I just never got around to taking back. Nobody ever calls asking for my keg back.

Edit: I'm also thinking that if rent a keg out, I'd hold more than $10 if I really wanted it back. Probably Also include some language in sale that says unreturned kegs after 90 days may include recovery fee. I just don't see an expectation of getting back with out the protectors.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 06:52:43 PM by wort-h.o.g. »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline duboman

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1576
    • View Profile
Re: I hope I'm not screwed
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2015, 07:29:21 PM »
Huh. I have few kegs I just never got around to taking back. Nobody ever calls asking for my keg back.

Edit: I'm also thinking that if rent a keg out, I'd hold more than $10 if I really wanted it back. Probably Also include some language in sale that says unreturned kegs after 90 days may include recovery fee. I just don't see an expectation of getting back with out the protectors.
I'm not trying to be snarky but if you don't return the kegs you've stolen them, your rent wasn't a purchase of anything other than the beer inside-return the kegs.....
Peace....Love......Beer......

The Commune Brewing Company-Perfecting the craft of beer since 2010

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4439
  • Play Nice
    • View Profile
    • Harvey's Brewhaus
Re: I hope I'm not screwed
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2015, 07:36:33 PM »
i must be on a different page. are we talking about getting a keg at a beer ditributor, or actually going to  brewery and "renting a keg"?

I'm talking about getting a keg from a distributor.  these are not rental agreements-at least where i've bought them. there you are paying for keg of beer.

not advocating "theft" or anything...if theres a rental agreement in place, you should take them back.

 heck ive got no use for the commercial kegs i have.just forgot to take them back and accepted i loss my keg deposit. wasnt keeping them for use or profit.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: I hope I'm not screwed
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2015, 07:37:56 PM »
For breweries, shrink is part of the game. I don't know how bad it was in the past, but I'm sure the rise in homebrewing hasn't helped the problem.

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8604
    • View Profile
Re: I hope I'm not screwed
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2015, 07:58:29 PM »
i must be on a different page. are we talking about getting a keg at a beer ditributor, or actually going to  brewery and "renting a keg"?

I'm talking about getting a keg from a distributor.  these are not rental agreements-at least where i've bought them. there you are paying for keg of beer.

not advocating "theft" or anything...if theres a rental agreement in place, you should take them back.

 heck ive got no use for the commercial kegs i have.just forgot to take them back and accepted i loss my keg deposit. wasnt keeping them for use or profit.
Generally, brewery buys keg. ~$120 new. Brews and fills keg. Sells to distributor with agreement to get keg back. Distributor gets $50 deposit. If you don't return it distributor keeps $50 and brewery just wonders where it went and hopes to sell enough beer to cover the loss.

As far as going to jail, it would have to be a pattern of several and part of some scam like reselling them. Otherwise, its too much of a civil issue. Not too many prosecutors are going to call in 6 voters to hear how you paid a deposit then forgot.

Offline Alewyfe

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 493
  • Fighting for Truth, Justice & Home Brew
    • View Profile
Re: I hope I'm not screwed
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2015, 10:17:31 PM »
Major Vices should weight in on this and you'll get an idea of how crucial returning these kegs is particularly if it's a micro's keg. The losses from un-returned kegs to a small brewery is staggering.
Diane
Roseburg, Oregon
Member: Umpqua Valley Brewers Guild
             Cascade Brewers Society
             AHA

"Have no fear of perfection...you'll never reach it" ~Salvador Dali

"Growing old is mandatory. Growing up? Definitely optional!"