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Author Topic: Beer brewers vs beer "architects" in Belgium  (Read 4828 times)

Offline pete b

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Re: Beer brewers vs beer "architects" in Belgium
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2015, 09:40:48 pm »
And in the U.S., I'm sure the reason contracted labels get labeled is for the taxman. All roads lead back to the taxman.

Altruism does not exist in legislation, including consumer protection. Follow the breadcrumbs far enough and somebody is making money somewhere.
I didn't want to have to make a sub-reference to Chaucer....



Truer words have never been spoken.

This seems unlikely. I'm sure Steve in TX would agree. The speeches Churchill made during WWII were hot stuff. Ghandi and the Dalai Lama certainly spoke words, however foreign, that rang truer. Lincoln's Gettysburg Address comes to mind, as does the speech that Shakespeare delivers us Via Henry V just before The Battle of Agincourt. I've even heard Steve utter sager words in reference to fermentation temperatures. And let's not forget the many references to Western literature and Mythology in just the footnotes to T.S. Eliot's "The Wasteland".
( BTW I'm being faux dickish here for fun)

Why only the footnotes? I mean, April is the cruelest month...or rainiest. Both?
I didn't want to have to make a sub- reference to Chaucer...
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Beer brewers vs beer "architects" in Belgium
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2015, 12:01:21 pm »
One of the reasons why this topic is hot is that we have a huge yearly Belgian beer festival, where ALL Belgian brewers are invited. The problem now is that there are too many "beer firms" as we call them, and the organizers of the festival have decided not to invite them separately. They need to hook up with the brewery where their beers are made.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Beer brewers vs beer "architects" in Belgium
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2015, 06:38:28 pm »
One of the reasons why this topic is hot is that we have a huge yearly Belgian beer festival, where ALL Belgian brewers are invited. The problem now is that there are too many "beer firms" as we call them, and the organizers of the festival have decided not to invite them separately. They need to hook up with the brewery where their beers are made.

That is interesting insight. What is your feeling on all of this?

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Beer brewers vs beer "architects" in Belgium
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2015, 09:32:38 am »
One of the reasons why this topic is hot is that we have a huge yearly Belgian beer festival, where ALL Belgian brewers are invited. The problem now is that there are too many "beer firms" as we call them, and the organizers of the festival have decided not to invite them separately. They need to hook up with the brewery where their beers are made.

That is interesting insight. What is your feeling on all of this?

also a creative way to deal with the issue. There is the craftman, and there are the 'architects'. they can each tell their story. I'm all for labeling. label everything because it's not about who is what and where, it's about informed consent. I want to know where my beer is brewed. it affects lot's of political and social ideals but it also has a real effect on quality. even just 70 miles down the road.
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Offline Frankenbrew

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Re: Beer brewers vs beer "architects" in Belgium
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2015, 04:27:29 pm »
And in the U.S., I'm sure the reason contracted labels get labeled is for the taxman. All roads lead back to the taxman.

Altruism does not exist in legislation, including consumer protection. Follow the breadcrumbs far enough and somebody is making money somewhere.
I didn't want to have to make a sub-reference to Chaucer....



Truer words have never been spoken.

This seems unlikely. I'm sure Steve in TX would agree. The speeches Churchill made during WWII were hot stuff. Ghandi and the Dalai Lama certainly spoke words, however foreign, that rang truer. Lincoln's Gettysburg Address comes to mind, as does the speech that Shakespeare delivers us Via Henry V just before The Battle of Agincourt. I've even heard Steve utter sager words in reference to fermentation temperatures. And let's not forget the many references to Western literature and Mythology in just the footnotes to T.S. Eliot's "The Wasteland".
( BTW I'm being faux dickish here for fun)

Why only the footnotes? I mean, April is the cruelest month...or rainiest. Both?
I didn't want to have to make a sub- reference to Chaucer...

Well, I'm sure that I don't want to get into a debate with you over English literature. What Steve said was as true or truer than anything that Churchill and/or Shakespeare wrote, though I will concede much simpler. However he wasn't trying to lift up a nation under siege by a fascist madman or trying to lead an army of "a few, lucky few" into battle against thousands. And yes, it wasn't as pithy as the prime minister or as poetic as the Bard, but it is true. As brewers we know the power that money wields in political decisions and when the choice is between money and the little guy, we know who wins.  ;)
Frank C.

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heart, you brew good ale.'

Offline pete b

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Re: Beer brewers vs beer "architects" in Belgium
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2015, 06:44:20 pm »
Had a few home brews and felt playful. Glad your a good sport. Basically agree about the money thing, who couldn't in a post citizens united world. However every now and then decency and common sense does prevail so I perhaps am not as cynical as some.
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Offline pete b

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Re: Beer brewers vs beer "architects" in Belgium
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2015, 07:48:04 am »
AB just got in trouble for not labeling that one of their products DIDN'T come from far way. Same principle I think. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/kirin-beer-money_n_6430732.html
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Beer brewers vs beer "architects" in Belgium
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2015, 07:53:38 am »
One of the reasons why this topic is hot is that we have a huge yearly Belgian beer festival, where ALL Belgian brewers are invited. The problem now is that there are too many "beer firms" as we call them, and the organizers of the festival have decided not to invite them separately. They need to hook up with the brewery where their beers are made.

That is interesting insight. What is your feeling on all of this?

Wrt this beer festival, the fact is that a number of beer firms have much better beers than many true breweries, so the rule to only admit breweries is kind of silly.  Plus, there are breweries that have parts of their beers brewed by other breweries as well.  So it's all quite confusing. Better labeling with obligatory mentioning of where the beer was actually brewed would already be an improvement...
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Beer brewers vs beer "architects" in Belgium
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2015, 01:10:42 pm »
I imagine it vexes the contract brewers greatly because it means they can't pretend they are something they are not - a real brewery.

I'm not sure I get your distinction.  They are brewing, are they not?  What is a "real" brewery and how is it different?
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Beer brewers vs beer "architects" in Belgium
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2015, 07:30:01 am »
Here it is if you just contract brew then you are a beer company. If you brew then you are brewing company. Boston Beer Company started as a contract brewer....
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 07:54:41 am by Thirsty_Monk »
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Beer brewers vs beer "architects" in Belgium
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2015, 07:52:01 am »
Here it is if you just contract brew then you are a beer company. If you brew then you are breeding company. Boston Beer Company started as a contract brewer....

OK.  I think I get you.  You and Major are making the distinction between the brewer/brewery and the company who contracts them to brew their beer.  I missed that in the earlier post. 

I thought Major was saying if you were a contract brewer (ie. brewing someone else's beer for them) you were not a "real" brewery. 

I agree that if you contract someone else to brew your beer you are not a brewery/brewer.  But the brewery contracted to brew the beer for you is.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Beer brewers vs beer "architects" in Belgium
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2015, 08:01:43 am »
There are three reasons why someone would contract brew.

existing brewery run out of capacity and needs more beer.
Existing brewery wants to start canning/bottling in large quantities and does not have a canning/bottling line.
New start up wants to save on capital. Does not brew beer in first place and become to be just a marketing and sales business.

Usually contract brewing is just a short term solution.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Beer brewers vs beer "architects" in Belgium
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2015, 09:16:37 am »
I imagine it vexes the contract brewers greatly because it means they can't pretend they are something they are not - a real brewery.

I'm not sure I get your distinction.  They are brewing, are they not?  What is a "real" brewery and how is it different?

The TTB will not approve businesses using any variation of "brewer" or any other term that suggests the business is brewing if they are not given a brewing permit on the basis of operation of a brewery under their ownership. That's why the contractors tend to use either "beer company" or "project" in their name. Even if you come in and help staff and manage the brewing for your contract brews you still cannot label your business as a brewer because you are not and cannot be issued a brewing permit, unless you are a brewery that is contract brewing in addition to brewing under your own permit.
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