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Author Topic: blood orange saison  (Read 8515 times)

Offline SiameseMoose

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2015, 07:17:52 am »
I used blood orange in a Belgian Strong Golden a few years ago, and really liked the way it came out. I used the zest in the kettle at knock-out, and added the juice to the secondary. I think it was 2 oranges for 5 gallons.

I know the issue that others here are describing with citrus fruit, and I've tasted that in others' beer. However, I've also used grapefruit and Mandarin oranges in beers with great success, and never had that off flavor issue.
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Offline Frankenbrew

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2015, 07:25:58 am »
I think if you go fairly light on the citrus fruit itself and heavy on citrussy flavor and aroma hops, you can create a very citrussy profile in the beer without the problems associated with fermenting large amounts of fruit.
Frank C.

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heart, you brew good ale.'

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2015, 07:29:52 am »
I used blood orange in a Belgian Strong Golden a few years ago, and really liked the way it came out. I used the zest in the kettle at knock-out, and added the juice to the secondary. I think it was 2 oranges for 5 gallons.

I know the issue that others here are describing with citrus fruit, and I've tasted that in others' beer. However, I've also used grapefruit and Mandarin oranges in beers with great success, and never had that off flavor issue.
For his blood orange Hefe Sam Calagione recommends pasteurizing zest & fruit before adding it to primary. You also add the zest at knock-out. Would that be better than adding to secondary?
Frank P.

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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2015, 07:30:27 am »
the problems associated with fermenting large amounts of fruit.

What would these be?
Frank P.

Staggering on the shoulders of giant dwarfs.

Offline Frankenbrew

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2015, 07:52:26 am »
the problems associated with fermenting large amounts of fruit.

What would these be?

The aforementioned puke and soap flavors.
Frank C.

And thereof comes the proverb: 'Blessing of your
heart, you brew good ale.'

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2015, 08:32:57 am »
the problems associated with fermenting large amounts of fruit.

What would these be?

The aforementioned puke and soap flavors.

Fermenting large amounts of fruit does not necessarily lead to puke and soap flavors.
Frank P.

Staggering on the shoulders of giant dwarfs.

Offline Iliff Ave

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2015, 08:45:42 am »
I have never had issues with citrus but I have only used it at the end of the boil or after a week in the fermenter. I normally just use zest but have used small amounts of juice as well.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2015, 09:06:45 am »
the problems associated with fermenting large amounts of fruit.

What would these be?

The aforementioned puke and soap flavors.

Fermenting large amounts of fruit does not necessarily lead to puke and soap flavors.
Butyric acid is almost always a bacterial contamination issue. I can't speak to the soap thing.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2015, 09:08:28 am »
I always assumed that the unpleasant citrus fermentation flavors had to do with unhappy yeast. the pH is too low, the nutrient load is too low, the yeast spit out all kinds of nasty flavors. at low levels it would probably (and is apparently) fine. I'd give it a try with a gallon as someone mentioned.

the color is so important to a 'blood orange' anything that I would think you would almost have to use the juice as well.
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Offline Stevie

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2015, 09:16:15 am »
I always assumed that the unpleasant citrus fermentation flavors had to do with unhappy yeast. the pH is too low, the nutrient load is too low, the yeast spit out all kinds of nasty flavors. at low levels it would probably (and is apparently) fine. I'd give it a try with a gallon as someone mentioned.

the color is so important to a 'blood orange' anything that I would think you would almost have to use the juice as well.
Maybe you're right. I am pretty sure the putrid version I had, by somebody that you know, started out as pure OJ.

Offline erockrph

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2015, 09:22:21 am »
I always assumed that the unpleasant citrus fermentation flavors had to do with unhappy yeast. the pH is too low, the nutrient load is too low, the yeast spit out all kinds of nasty flavors. at low levels it would probably (and is apparently) fine. I'd give it a try with a gallon as someone mentioned.

the color is so important to a 'blood orange' anything that I would think you would almost have to use the juice as well.
Hibiscus + a Mandarina Bavaria dry hop would probably get you just as close...
Eric B.

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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2015, 09:43:19 am »
Hibiscus + a Mandarina Bavaria dry hop would probably get you just as close...

Ouch. A concoction of hibiscus + Mandarina Bavaria is NOT close to a real high-quality organic Sicilian blood orange. And even if it is, it isn't.
Frank P.

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Offline pete b

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2015, 10:10:24 am »
I've heard that citrus when fermented tastes like vomit unless you know some special trick.
Maybe those of us who threw up after a 1/2 gallon of screwdrivers made with cheap vodka and cheap oj as teenagers think that's what vomit smells like. ;)
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2015, 04:07:31 pm »
Possibly

Offline SiameseMoose

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Re: blood orange saison
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2015, 04:24:02 pm »
For his blood orange Hefe Sam Calagione recommends pasteurizing zest & fruit before adding it to primary. You also add the zest at knock-out. Would that be better than adding to secondary?

Fruit skins are loaded with wild yeast. I wouldn't put it into a fermenter without somehow cleaning it. For instance some cider mills I've been too rinse their apples in a sanitizer (sometimes bleach and water) before pressing. Going in at knock out heat sanitizes it. I freeze the juice for the time during primary, and the freezing process does a reasonable job of killing the bad actors.
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Rob
I named my brewery after my cat, Moose. He's Siamese.