Author Topic: Questions after first all grain  (Read 3700 times)

Offline johnny_b

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
    • Doghouse Racing
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2010, 02:22:52 PM »
Hey, thank to all for the replies. I too determine success on the taste, I just want to evaluate my process and know what I get to plan later recipes. That said, I did not crush my own grain and I batch sparged. I just opened the valve wide for each runoff.

I really enjoyed doing this for the first time, it was no big deal at all. If I had started with AG, it may have been a little overwhelming, but after doing extract for a while it's no big deal.

 I did learn that if you intend on doing AG and are going to stick with 5 gal batches that you by no means need a pump and a cooler mash tun when loaded with grain and strike water is definitely light enough to lift above your boil kettle for running off. I also learned that I should have listened to everyone that says that the 23 jet NG burners are overkill. Anyone considering these to use with keggles, do yourself a favor and GET THE 10 JET BURNER.

I am happy to have made the leap and look forward to tasting the difference of AG. I actually brewed the same recipe extract and
AG to compare side by side (the wife is out of town and I wanted to do an exbeeriment).
Pimpin' ain't easy.

Primary: Black Spot APA
Secondary: Fall Cyser
Drinking: Rye IPA, ESB

Offline richardt

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1227
    • View Profile
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2010, 02:31:56 PM »

One question I have always had is should I continue to tilt the MT when the flow is down to a slow trickle so that I can get all of the final drips out or am I just waisting my time with that since it doesn't bring my volume up by much?   
[/quote]
Yes, you should.  I do it because of my frugal nature.  "Waste not, want not."  
It may not be efficient in terms of time spent, though.  
I haven't done the math to determine how much fermentable sugar is in one or two gallons of 1.016 last runnings (if fly sparging) or in one or two gallons of 1.024 last runnings (if batch sparging).  

I typically brew 10 gallon batches.
I mash and batch/fly sparge with the same 10 Gallon [orange ;)] Igloo cooler.
I usually do 2 or 3 batch sparges to get a lot of volume quickly into the boil kettle, and then do a fly sparge with the remaining sparge water while the kettle is bringing the wort to a boil.  I only mildly rake the upper 1/2 of the grain bed with my stirring spoon when fly sparging to avoid having to vorlauf again.
I always take the extra time to tip and drain the fluid (takes as long as 10-15 minutes.  It's amazing how much the grain bed compacts and shrinks as the final runnings are pulled off.  We're talking a good gallon or two of wort.  I always make sure it remains above 1.008-1.016 (brix 2-4, if using the refractometer), in order to avoid astringency issues.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11706
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2010, 08:14:15 AM »
One question I have always had is should I continue to tilt the MT when the flow is down to a slow trickle so that I can get all of the final drips out or am I just waisting my time with that since it doesn't bring my volume up by much?   

Either way....for years, I didn't bother to tilt.  These days, I usually do, even though it usually only yields an extra cup or 2.  For me, it's easy enough to do that I just go for it.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline edward

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 43
    • View Profile
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2010, 09:27:23 AM »

I usually sparge about a gallon more than what is recommended.  My runoff gravity never goes below the astringency zone and it helps me to pick up a few gravity points.  Checking the runoff gravity is a good way to find out if you can sparge a little more or not.  Off course you will have to boil that much longer to get down to your target volume.

If I am brewing to style and my gravity is too high at the end I usually add water to get the gravity into spec.

Offline euge

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7247
  • Estilo Casero
    • View Profile
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2010, 10:07:32 AM »
As far as tilting goes I usually place a piece of 1 x 2 under the far end of the tun before doughing in. Not really necessary with the Coleman xtreme but out of habit it still gets done...
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline cbiddy

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2010, 03:01:52 PM »
..
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 03:03:54 PM by cbiddy »

Offline theoman

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 498
  • Outskirts of Brussels, Belgium
    • View Profile
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2010, 09:18:45 AM »
Congrats on going all-grain!

I had a bit of the opposite problem with my latest batch. I was going for a nice, easy drinking, low-alcohol pils. My efficiency is normally in the low 70's, so that's what I planned for. For this batch, I tightened my grind a bit, added a stir to the mash, let it rest a bit longer before sparging and slowed the sparge down compared to what I normally do. I accidentally got near 85% efficiency.

Offline malzig

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
    • View Profile
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2010, 05:07:34 AM »
By the way, even using 37 ppg I calculate 67% mash efficiency, not 62.  69% using 36 ppg.
I believe you're underselling your efficiency at 62% because you are calculating it based on the volume you got into the fermenter, which is partially a measure of how good you are at siphoning.  A more useful number in calculating recipes is the mash efficiency, which helps predict OG based on the amount of grain and water used, ignoring transfer efficiencies.

Offline coypoo

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2010, 09:24:00 AM »
By the way, even using 37 ppg I calculate 67% mash efficiency, not 62.  69% using 36 ppg.
I believe you're underselling your efficiency at 62% because you are calculating it based on the volume you got into the fermenter, which is partially a measure of how good you are at siphoning.  A more useful number in calculating recipes is the mash efficiency, which helps predict OG based on the amount of grain and water used, ignoring transfer efficiencies.

How are you getting those numbers? Isnt it 10lbs x 36ppp= 360 / 5gal= 72, and he got 45, so 45/72= 62%. Am I doing the calcualtions wrong??

Offline malzig

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
    • View Profile
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2010, 03:41:47 AM »
How are you getting those numbers? Isnt it 10lbs x 36ppp= 360 / 5gal= 72, and he got 45, so 45/72= 62%. Am I doing the calcualtions wrong??
No, that's a perfectly good way to do the calculation, except that he said he had 5.5 gallons at the end of the boil.
So, 10lbs x 36ppp= 360 / 5.5 gal= 65.5, and he got 45, so 45/65= 69%

Offline coypoo

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2010, 10:16:37 AM »
Ah, didnt see the 5.5post boil volume. That makes sense

Offline dean

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
  • Me and Hayden, my newest grandson.
    • View Profile
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2010, 06:37:17 AM »
Great job. From what I understand any efficiency in that range yields the the meat and potatoes part of the grain.  I batch sparge as per Denny and one thing I did notice is that when I slowed down my run off to about 15 minutes from 5 minutes, my efficiency got 5-10 points higher.

Boy, that's interesting!  I've tried all different speeds without any difference.  I wonder why it's different for us?

Denny, do you suppose that by slowing the speed down that fritzeye might actually be allowing a more complete conversion = a longer mash time?  Just a thought and wondering.


Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11706
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2010, 08:19:48 AM »
Great job. From what I understand any efficiency in that range yields the the meat and potatoes part of the grain.  I batch sparge as per Denny and one thing I did notice is that when I slowed down my run off to about 15 minutes from 5 minutes, my efficiency got 5-10 points higher.

Boy, that's interesting!  I've tried all different speeds without any difference.  I wonder why it's different for us?

Denny, do you suppose that by slowing the speed down that fritzeye might actually be allowing a more complete conversion = a longer mash time?  Just a thought and wondering.



I guess that's a possibility I hadn't considered, Dean.  Seems like a logical idea.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline Kaiser

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Imperial Brewing Geek
    • View Profile
    • braukaiser.com
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2010, 12:31:05 PM »
Denny, do you suppose that by slowing the speed down that fritzeye might actually be allowing a more complete conversion = a longer mash time?  Just a thought and wondering.


I guess that's a possibility I hadn't considered, Dean.  Seems like a logical idea.
[/quote]

If that is the case then the gravity of the run-off would increase while it is running off. You could test that with a hydrometer or refractometer.

Kai

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8689
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: Questions after first all grain
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2010, 01:37:00 PM »
Denny, do you suppose that by slowing the speed down that fritzeye might actually be allowing a more complete conversion = a longer mash time?  Just a thought and wondering.


I guess that's a possibility I hadn't considered, Dean.  Seems like a logical idea.

If that is the case then the gravity of the run-off would increase while it is running off. You could test that with a hydrometer or refractometer.

Kai
[/quote]

+1

Targeting your gravity is the key to hitting your numbers at the end of the day. Mash efficiency can have a significant impact on your final numbers. Measure your runoff volume and gravity after mashing. This will enable one to make adjustments to the pre-boil volume if necessary and boil down the wort to your target gravity. Blindly attempting to lauter as much as possible may complicate things. Saving the wort for starters is a plus.
Ron Price