[hmbrewing]

I'm late to this thread, but I don't secondary anymore and haven't in years. I did an experiment with our homebrew club  a while back. Brewed 10G of summer ale and split the batch into 2 carboys. I let one sit for 3 months - on the trub and yeast and the other I racked over into a secondary after 3 weeks and let it sit the same amount as the first batch. I bottled both on the same day (boy did that suck).

The result? No one - not one single person in our club could pick out which batch sat for 3 months in primary and which one was put into a secondary. They couldn't even tell the difference by judging clarity as they were both spot on. I'll repeat that - there was NO visible difference in clarity between both batches. Some dropped secondary's from that point forward and haven't looked back, remain very pleased with the results of their beers, and continue to thank me for my experiment. Others are convinced my test was an anomaly and continue to secondary   

Hey - that's the wonderful thing about this craft - you make it yours and you own it. The beer you brew, ferment, condition, and care for is truly YOURS. Do what YOU think makes you the best beer and follow the process YOU enjoy the most! Cheers!

[S. cerevisiae]

While it is true that beer will naturally clear in a primary if given enough time (three months is a long time), most of the less flocculent strains will not clear as quickly as they do when racked to a secondary.  That's why brewers have resorted to cold crashing. 

Is a secondary fermentation vessel necessary?  Well, I contend that brewers who serially bottom crop should seriously think about racking before the beer fully clears.  The choice to rack to a secondary fermentation vessel or straight to a keg is their choice.  However, bottom cropping well-sedimented beer carries over the least flocculent cells.  The least flocculent cells are often, but not always petite mutants.   That's a problem that the practice of cropping from a cold-crashed primary has compounded.

I also believe that a secondary fermentation vessel can be an advantage early on in the game when one is still bottling without the aid of cold storage.  Under those conditions, a secondary fermentation vessel will get clearer beer one's bottle much quicker than waiting for it clear in a primary fermentation vessel at fermentation temperature.  Let's face it.  New brewers tend to stick with BRY 96 in one its forms (often US-05) because the strain is so forgiving.  BRY 96 is not the most flocculent strain, and new brewers have not yet mastered the art of racking; hence, a lot of sediment gets carried over to the bottling bucket, less sediment in the fermentation vessel leads to less sediment in the bottling bucket.

By the way, the 3-month test that hmbrewing ran proves not only that autolysis is overblown, but also that oxidation when racking to a secondary fermentation vessel is overblown.  The old school autolysis bogeyman has been replaced with the new school oxidation bogeyman.

[hmbrewing]

"By the way, the 3-month test that hmbrewing ran proves not only that autolysis is overblown, but also that oxidation when racking to a secondary fermentation vessel is overblown.  The old school autolysis bogeyman has been replaced with the new school oxidation bogeyman."

I did not think of it that way! 2 VERY good points!

[majorvices]

Agree on the autolysis being overblown. Still strongly disagree that oxidation is overblown. At the very least, not for hoppy beers. Oxygen will destroy a IPA or IIPA very quickly.

[HoosierBrew]

Agree on the autolysis being overblown. Still strongly disagree that oxidation is overblown. At the very least, not for hoppy beers. Oxygen will destroy a IPA or IIPA very quickly.

+1

[reverseapachemaster]

By the way, the 3-month test that hmbrewing ran proves not only that autolysis is overblown, but also that oxidation when racking to a secondary fermentation vessel is overblown.  The old school autolysis bogeyman has been replaced with the new school oxidation bogeyman.

I agree with the bolded part under the right conditions. Poor racking procedures, especially when coupled with premature racking to secondary, is a good opportunity to create flaws in the beer. If the choice is between the risk of less than perfectly clear beer or the risk of creating off flavors then I'd take the risk of cloudiness any day, especially when the clarity can be improved by sticking carbonated bottles in the fridge and basically cold crashing them.

[Joe Sr.]

However, bottom cropping well-sedimented beer carries over the least flocculent cells.  The least flocculent cells are often, but not always petite mutants.   That's a problem that the practice of cropping from a cold-crashed primary has compounded.

100% proven in my experience with several yeast strains over several years.

By the way, the 3-month test that hmbrewing ran proves not only that autolysis is overblown, but also that oxidation when racking to a secondary fermentation vessel is overblown.  The old school autolysis bogeyman has been replaced with the new school oxidation bogeyman.

I agree with the bolded part under the right conditions. Poor racking procedures, especially when coupled with premature racking to secondary, is a good opportunity to create flaws in the beer. If the choice is between the risk of less than perfectly clear beer or the risk of creating off flavors then I'd take the risk of cloudiness any day, especially when the clarity can be improved by sticking carbonated bottles in the fridge and basically cold crashing them.

I agree with this.  There are things we can do to improve clarity.  Oxidation cannot be improved, that I know of, and badly oxidized beer is nasty.

[Guenther]

What causes this to happen? CO2 pulling up yeast from the cake?

Yes, the phenomenon is more than likely due to outgassing.

I've done the same "3 month" test like 4 years ago... the difference is that I compared both beers with 5 weeks, and there was no difference just like the "3 months" test, that's why I asked the reason it would happen because I've been doing that for years and I (and a lot of friends) never noticed that kind of thing. Actually did let a few batches for 6 months and more, but I didn't pay attention to clarity because all of them were bright clear after so much time.

I'll try to do that again as soon as I can.

Thanks,