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Author Topic: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch  (Read 9034 times)

Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2015, 05:01:59 pm »
I've been reading that Dick Cantwell, the head brewer and part owner, and the 'face' of Elysian, voted against the sale to AB, but was in the minority.

I have seen that too, and if they each had 1/3 of the firm (big assumption), it would be easy to get outvoted.
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Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2015, 03:27:59 pm »
It was funny after a few sours
Most jokes, or the attempt there of, are.
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Offline nateo

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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2015, 07:20:24 pm »
incremental adjustments hide major changes over years/decades while adjusting customer expectations and reducing production costs/increasing profit margins.

Circle of life, bro. How long does it take to recoup the ROI from buying Elysian? That's exactly how long Elysian needs to make money. The brewing industry in general is basically just trying to manage a slow decline at this point. The big boys are diversifying away from beer, because while craft is growing, the rest of the market shrinking a lot faster.

There is nothing made that is awesome forever, either due to changing tastes, economic factors, or the general entropy enveloping the universe. People loved Fat Tire at one point, now I don't know anyone who drinks Fat Tire. When Elysian starts sucking that'll just create opportunities for other brewers.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2015, 09:23:06 pm »
incremental adjustments hide major changes over years/decades while adjusting customer expectations and reducing production costs/increasing profit margins.

Circle of life, bro. How long does it take to recoup the ROI from buying Elysian? That's exactly how long Elysian needs to make money. The brewing industry in general is basically just trying to manage a slow decline at this point. The big boys are diversifying away from beer, because while craft is growing, the rest of the market shrinking a lot faster.

There is nothing made that is awesome forever, either due to changing tastes, economic factors, or the general entropy enveloping the universe. People loved Fat Tire at one point, now I don't know anyone who drinks Fat Tire. When Elysian starts sucking that'll just create opportunities for other brewers.

not my point. My point is that the idea that a major buys up a craft and it 'stays the same' is only true to the extent that incremental adjustment must be slow enough to allow the customer to adapt their expectations. People didn't start wanting less hops in their bud because their tastes just inexplicably changed. Their expectations were handled through careful application of incremental change. We all drink goose island and say "it's still good" and as long as one generation is never so far from the last that we say, "jeez goose island tastes kind cheap and ricey lately doesn't it?" costs can be lowered. I don't know the history of fat tire recipe, perhaps it has changed and that's why people think less of it today but I expect it's that a) You personally think less of it because your palate has changed over the years and b) the palate of the 'average' craft beer drinker has shifted over the years. That's a different thing than AB slowly reducing the level of hopping in bud over the course of decades to cut production costs without admitting to their customer base that the beer was getting less and less tasty, the whole while pointing at customer desire as the reason for their low level of flavor.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2015, 06:16:28 am »
The only beer I hope stays the same is Split Shot. The rest I dont care about. Except Valhalla Red. So just Split Shot and Valhalla Red. And Bete Blanche

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2015, 08:38:59 am »
not my point. My point is that the idea that a major buys up a craft and it 'stays the same' is only true to the extent that incremental adjustment must be slow enough to allow the customer to adapt their expectations. People didn't start wanting less hops in their bud because their tastes just inexplicably changed. Their expectations were handled through careful application of incremental change. We all drink goose island and say "it's still good" and as long as one generation is never so far from the last that we say, "jeez goose island tastes kind cheap and ricey lately doesn't it?" costs can be lowered. I don't know the history of fat tire recipe, perhaps it has changed and that's why people think less of it today but I expect it's that a) You personally think less of it because your palate has changed over the years and b) the palate of the 'average' craft beer drinker has shifted over the years. That's a different thing than AB slowly reducing the level of hopping in bud over the course of decades to cut production costs without admitting to their customer base that the beer was getting less and less tasty, the whole while pointing at customer desire as the reason for their low level of flavor.

I'm not so sure you can blame the drift away from hops in bud on manipulation by AB. If you look at the 1940s-1980s there was a drift away across the board from flavorful foods and bitter foods towards foods with high salt and sugar content and otherwise fairly bland. You can track those changes through other foods. You don't see the wedge salad become a popular item on menus in the 80s unless people wanted to consume complete blandness. AB sure steered into the skid on that one with their advertising and product adjustment but they can't be singularly blamed for it happening.
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Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2015, 08:48:08 am »
not my point. My point is that the idea that a major buys up a craft and it 'stays the same' is only true to the extent that incremental adjustment must be slow enough to allow the customer to adapt their expectations. People didn't start wanting less hops in their bud because their tastes just inexplicably changed. Their expectations were handled through careful application of incremental change. We all drink goose island and say "it's still good" and as long as one generation is never so far from the last that we say, "jeez goose island tastes kind cheap and ricey lately doesn't it?" costs can be lowered. I don't know the history of fat tire recipe, perhaps it has changed and that's why people think less of it today but I expect it's that a) You personally think less of it because your palate has changed over the years and b) the palate of the 'average' craft beer drinker has shifted over the years. That's a different thing than AB slowly reducing the level of hopping in bud over the course of decades to cut production costs without admitting to their customer base that the beer was getting less and less tasty, the whole while pointing at customer desire as the reason for their low level of flavor.

I'm not so sure you can blame the drift away from hops in bud on manipulation by AB. If you look at the 1940s-1980s there was a drift away across the board from flavorful foods and bitter foods towards foods with high salt and sugar content and otherwise fairly bland. You can track those changes through other foods. You don't see the wedge salad become a popular item on menus in the 80s unless people wanted to consume complete blandness. AB sure steered into the skid on that one with their advertising and product adjustment but they can't be singularly blamed for it happening.

Bitterness used to be a component in food stuffs, and some of those have made a comeback - thinking of arugula. I also remember horehound candies as being bitter, the Grandparents always had some on hand.

Sour foods were also more common, as pickling was a way to preserve foods.

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Offline nateo

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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2015, 09:26:46 am »
I'm not so sure you can blame the drift away from hops in bud on manipulation by AB.

Yeah, that was my point. Things change, some stuff gets worse, some stuff gets better. You can't point at one company and say "they're responsible" when most likely they were just responding to changing tastes.
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Offline yso191

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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2015, 09:54:19 am »
Here is an interesting chart that Haas used in the Hops Academy I took a couple of years ago.  Remember that the 'Average beer' is BMC.

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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2015, 12:12:55 pm »
I'm not so sure you can blame the drift away from hops in bud on manipulation by AB.

Yeah, that was my point. Things change, some stuff gets worse, some stuff gets better. You can't point at one company and say "they're responsible" when most likely they were just responding to changing tastes.

didn't say AB was responsible for the dumming down of american tastebuds. I was talking about bud specifically. However, I don't buy that the american public got all up in arms and demanded less bitter, sweeter, saltier foods NOW or else we'll stop buying. Expectations can be managed, consumers can be 'educated' and are everyday. It's why the majors have bigger marketing budgets than production budgets. They are in the business of getting more people to eat/drink more of their product period.
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Offline pete b

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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2015, 01:04:06 pm »
I'm not so sure you can blame the drift away from hops in bud on manipulation by AB.

Yeah, that was my point. Things change, some stuff gets worse, some stuff gets better. You can't point at one company and say "they're responsible" when most likely they were just responding to changing tastes.
+1000
I don't think Americans were demanding sweeteners in normally savory foods like hot dogs and spaghetti sauce until food manufacturers started making high fructose corn syrup from subsidized corn practically for free. Now people are hooked on sweeteners in formally savory foods and profits are through the roof and a few mega corporations have been able to buy up just about every company that gets successful selling a food product.
didn't say AB was responsible for the dumming down of american tastebuds. I was talking about bud specifically. However, I don't buy that the american public got all up in arms and demanded less bitter, sweeter, saltier foods NOW or else we'll stop buying. Expectations can be managed, consumers can be 'educated' and are everyday. It's why the majors have bigger marketing budgets than production budgets. They are in the business of getting more people to eat/drink more of their product period.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 01:25:57 pm by dbeechum »
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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2015, 01:44:14 pm »
From what I can tell from research, the "dumbing down" of American beer started around WWII, when women were doing much of the shopping.  Supposedly, breweries wanted to make less challenging beer to appeal to them.  The invention of the 6 pack supposedly happened around then to make it easier to carry beer home.  Maybe urban legend, maybe not...
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Offline pete b

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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #57 on: January 28, 2015, 02:04:29 pm »
I'm not so sure you can blame the drift away from hops in bud on manipulation by AB.

Yeah, that was my point. Things change, some stuff gets worse, some stuff gets better. You can't point at one company and say "they're responsible" when most likely they were just responding to changing tastes.
+1000
I don't think Americans were demanding sweeteners in normally savory foods like hot dogs and spaghetti sauce until food manufacturers started making high fructose corn syrup from subsidized corn practically for free. Now people are hooked on sweeteners in formally savory foods and profits are through the roof and a few mega corporations have been able to buy up just about every company that gets successful selling a food product.
didn't say AB was responsible for the dumming down of american tastebuds. I was talking about bud specifically. However, I don't buy that the american public got all up in arms and demanded less bitter, sweeter, saltier foods NOW or else we'll stop buying. Expectations can be managed, consumers can be 'educated' and are everyday. It's why the majors have bigger marketing budgets than production budgets. They are in the business of getting more people to eat/drink more of their product period.
Something weird happening: I had quoted Jonathan's last response, then all of a sudden it had me quoting other posts and Jonathan's post is in the body of mine and it says Drew edited it. Weird.
I'll try to redo the post as it should be.
EDIT: Maybe I put my text in t6he middle of quotes. Still don't know why it says drew edited it though. OH well.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 02:07:49 pm by pete b »
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Offline pete b

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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2015, 02:05:24 pm »
I'm not so sure you can blame the drift away from hops in bud on manipulation by AB.

Yeah, that was my point. Things change, some stuff gets worse, some stuff gets better. You can't point at one company and say "they're responsible" when most likely they were just responding to changing tastes.

didn't say AB was responsible for the dumming down of american tastebuds. I was talking about bud specifically. However, I don't buy that the american public got all up in arms and demanded less bitter, sweeter, saltier foods NOW or else we'll stop buying. Expectations can be managed, consumers can be 'educated' and are everyday. It's why the majors have bigger marketing budgets than production budgets. They are in the business of getting more people to eat/drink more of their product period.
+1000
I don't think Americans were demanding sweeteners in normally savory foods like hot dogs and spaghetti sauce until food manufacturers started making high fructose corn syrup from subsidized corn practically for free. Now people are hooked on sweeteners in formally savory foods and profits are through the roof and a few mega corporations have been able to buy up just about every company that gets successful selling a food product.
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.

Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: Elysian Just sold to Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2015, 03:54:32 pm »
Expectations can be managed, consumers can be 'educated' and are everyday. It's why the majors have bigger marketing budgets than production budgets. They are in the business of getting more people to eat/drink more of their product period.

Anyone know just how big the marketing budgets are?
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