Author Topic: Next up...  (Read 972 times)

Offline flbrewer

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Next up...
« on: January 27, 2015, 12:06:08 AM »
Was considering the below recipe for my second all-grain. Anyone tried this?

If the recipe states 6.25 gallons, is that the assumed post-boil, pre-fermenter volume?

http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/OpeningDayPaleAle
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 02:35:19 AM by flbrewer »

Offline brewday

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Re: Next up...
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2015, 12:10:38 AM »
I think (hope!) the 4 week dry hop is a misprint.
Jon Weaver

Offline flbrewer

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Re: Next up...
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2015, 12:36:11 AM »
I think (hope!) the 4 week dry hop is a misprint.

HAHA, yeah saw that and assumed 4 days.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Next up...
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2015, 04:50:02 PM »
yeah that's 6.25 into the fermenter. that leaves room for losses to trub and dry hops with 5-5.5 going into a keg.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Next up...
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2015, 07:35:50 PM »
looks like a good one!
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Next up...
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2015, 08:14:33 PM »
I write all of my recipes to leave .5+ gallons in the kettle and 5.5 in the fermenter. Allows me to leave a majority of the trub and hop material behind, and allows me to leave a bit of liquid above the yeast after racking.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Next up...
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2015, 08:40:46 PM »
I write all of my recipes to leave .5+ gallons in the kettle and 5.5 in the fermenter. Allows me to leave a majority of the trub and hop material behind, and allows me to leave a bit of liquid above the yeast after racking.

+1 same here
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline 69franx

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Re: Next up...
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2015, 03:23:02 PM »
You can use the "scale recipe" function as well. Plug all this in and the scale it to the volume you want. The program should keep all your specs the same, just a different size batch. Specs  being OG, IBUs,  SRM, and projected ABV
Frank L.
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In the works: Hopefully brewing 10 gallons of Pilsner tomorrow for a family reunion in July, then back to IPA and  a barleywine to age

Offline brewday

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Re: Next up...
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2015, 03:58:40 PM »
Looks like it's a 6.25 gallon recipe using 16 lbs of grain to get to 1.060 -- that's around 65% efficiency if my math is right.  If you're getting to 1.070 with your system, that means your efficiency is higher (75%?) and you'll need dial back some of the base malt.  Probably reduce the pale by a couple of pounds.

If you've already crushed and your grain is mixed, then try the "no sparge" method to drop a few points.

Personally, I'd just make the 7% beer and enjoy it!
Jon Weaver

Offline flbrewer

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Re: Next up...
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2015, 04:02:51 PM »
Looks like it's a 6.25 gallon recipe using 16 lbs of grain to get to 1.060 -- that's around 65% efficiency if my math is right.  If you're getting to 1.070 with your system, that means your efficiency is higher (75%?) and you'll need dial back some of the base malt.  Probably reduce the pale by a couple of pounds.

If you've already crushed and your grain is mixed, then try the "no sparge" method to drop a few points.

Personally, I'd just make the 7% beer and enjoy it!

You've got a good point...I may just give it a go. I really don't know what my efficiency is yet because this will be my first time with my own mill. I started playing around with a smaller grain bill but then didn't want to start adjusting hops.

Also, you're spot-on with the 65% efficiency number. Beersmith was set to 75%. Once I changed it I got the 6.1% ABV.

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Re: Next up...
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2015, 01:54:53 AM »
flbrewer, if it helps, you can bypass efficiency percentages and work directly in points per pound per gallon.  I prefer to use extraction rates in points per pound per gallon because it is a directly applicable value.  Extraction efficiency is an indirect value that requires an additional weighted computation to be performed.

total_gravity_points = 6.25 * 60 (1.060 in gravity points) = 375

points_per_pound_per_gallon = total_gravity_points / grist_weight

points_per_pound_per_gallon = 375 / 16 = 23.44

What this value means in layman's terms is that the original recipe was formulated to achieve an extraction rate of 23.44 gravity points per pound of grain, that is, the extract from one pound grain dissolved in a one gallon solution has a specific gravity of 1.02344  That's a value that can be easily applied in one brew house. Working the other way yields:

original_gravity = points_per_pound_per_gallon * grist_weight / batch_volume / 1000  + 1.0

original_gravity = 23.44 * 16 / 6.25 / 1000 + 1.0 = 1.060

The way to determine one's brew house extraction rate in points per pound per gallon is to simply track the original gravity and total final boil volume minus the break and hops for each batch.  For each batch in the sample, calculate a batch extraction rate using the following formula:

batch_extraction_rate = original_gravity_in_points * batch_total_volume / grist_weight

I calculate this value when I take my original gravity reading.  After a few batches have been brewed, it's time to calculate an average batch extraction by summing the batch extraction rates and dividing by the number of batch extraction rates.

Batch Extraction Rates

Batch #1 - 28 points per pound per gallon
Batch #2 - 27 points per pound per gallon
Batch #3 - 29 points per pound per gallon
Batch #4 - 30 points per pound per gallon
Batch #5 - 29 points per pound per gallon

average_batch_extraction_rate = 28 + 27 + 29 + 30 + 29 / 5 = 28.6

Now, we can convert the recipe to our brew house by calculating a grist scaling factor.  Our extraction rate is higher than the original extraction rate; therefore, this value will be less than one.

grist_scaling_factor = 23.44 / 28.6 = 0.82

All we need to do from this point forward is to multiply every quantity in the grist by 0.88 to scale the grist to our brew house.  We do not need to adjust the hop bill because the bitterness unit to gravity unit ratio will remain the same.

While what I just wrote seems like a lot of work, what you will find over time is that these calculations become automatic, and you will no longer have to compute an average batch extraction rate because your extraction rates will converge within a close enough range that you can ball park it without actually performing the calculation.  When that happens, you will be able to look at a recipe for 6.25 gallons 1.060 wort, and think I need to use 60 / 28.6 = 2.1 pounds of malt per gallon to hit that gravity.  At that point, you will prefer to look at recipes as percentages, which is the way that professional brewers state recipes.  For example, we are making a bigger version of SNPA, which is often quoted as having a grist that is 95% 2-Row and 5% C60.

total_grist_weight = 2.1 * 6.25 = 13.125 pounds

pounds_of_2Row = 13.125 * 0.95 = ~12.5
pounds_of_C60 = 13.125 * 0.05 = ~0.65

As you have more than likely already ascertained, the values add up to more than 13.125 pounds.  I rounded to make measuring a little easier.

With the above said, why should anyone learn how to perform these calculations when brewing software will shield one from having to learn this information?  Well, learning how to brew using brewing software is not the same thing as learning how to brew.  Learning how to brew means mastering all of the brewing fundamentals that are encapsulated in brewing software.


« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 02:17:23 AM by S. cerevisiae »

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Next up...
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2015, 02:08:13 AM »
flbrewer, if it helps, you can bypass efficiency percentages and work directly in points per pound per gallon.  I prefer to use extraction rates in points per pound per gallon because it is a directly applicable value.  Extraction efficiency is an indirect value that requires an additional weighted computation to be performed.

total_gravity_points = 6.25 * 60 (1.060 in gravity points) = 375

points_per_pound_per_gallon = total_gravity_points / grist_weight

points_per_pound_per_gallon = 375 / 16 = 23.44

What this value means in layman's terms is that the original recipe was formulated to achieve and extraction rate of 23.44 gravity points per pound of grain, that is, the extract from one pound grain dissolved in a one gallon solution has a specific gravity of 1.02344  That's a value that can be easily applied in one brew house. Working the other way yields:

original_gravity = points_per_pound_per_gallon * grist_weight / batch_volume / 1000  + 1.0

original_gravity = 23.44 * 16 / 6.25 / 1000 + 1.0 = 1.060

The way to determine one's brew house extraction rate in points per pound per gallon is to simply track the original gravity and total final boil volume minus the break and hops for each batch.  For each batch in the sample, calculate a batch extraction rate using the following formula:

batch_extraction_rate = original_gravity_in_points * batch_total_volume / grist_weight

I calculate this value when I take my original gravity reading.  After a few batches have been brewed, it's time to calculate an average batch extraction by summing the batch extraction rates and dividing by the number of batch extraction rates.

Batch Extraction Rates

Batch #1 - 28 points per pound per gallon
Batch #2 - 27 points per pound per gallon
Batch #3 - 29 points per pound per gallon
Batch #4 - 30 points per pound per gallon
Batch #5 - 29 points per pound per gallon

average_batch_extraction_rate = 28 + 27 + 29 + 30 + 29 / 5 = 28.6

Now, we can convert the recipe to our brew house by calculate a grist scaling factor.  Our extraction rate is higher than the original extraction rate; therefore, this value will be less than one.

grist_scaling_factor = 23.44 / 28.6 = 0.82

All we need to do from this point forward is to multiply every quantity in the grist by 0.88 to scale the grist to our brew house.  We do not need to adjust the hop bill because the bitterness unit to gravity unit ratio will remain the same.

While what I just wrote seems like a lot of work, what you will find over time is that these calculations become automatic, and you will now longer have to compute an average batch extraction rate because your extraction rates will converge within a close enough range that you can ball park it without actually performing the calculation.  When that happens, you will be able to look at a recipe for 6.25 gallons 1.060 wort, and think I need to use 60 / 28.6 = 2.1 pounds of malt per gallon to hit that gravity.  At that point, you will prefer to look at recipes as percentages, which is the way that professional brewers state recipes.  For example, we are making a bigger version of SNPA, which is often quoted as having a grist that is 95% 2-Row and 5% C60.

total_grist_weight = 2.1 * 6.25 = 13.125 pounds

pounds_of_2Row = 13.125 * 0.95 = ~12.5
pounds_of_C60 = 13.125 * 0.05 = ~0.65

As you have more than likely already ascertained, the values add up to more than 13.125 pounds.  I rounded to make measuring a little easier.

With the above said, why should anyone learn how to perform these calculations when brewing software will shield one from having to learn this information?  Well, learning how to brew using brewing software is not the same thing as learning how to brew.  Learning how to brew means mastering all of the brewing fundamentals that are encapsulated in brewing software.
Plus, if we loose all technology in the zombie apocalypse,  and you dont know the math, you'll be forced to drink store bought beer, which at the rate we are going will all be owned by Bud

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Re: Next up...
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2015, 02:23:45 AM »
Plus, if we loose all technology in the zombie apocalypse,  and you dont know the math, you'll be forced to drink store bought beer, which at the rate we are going will all be owned by Bud

ROTFLMBO!  ;D

Offline fmader

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Re: Next up...
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2015, 02:50:23 AM »
flbrewer, if it helps, you can bypass efficiency percentages and work directly in points per pound per gallon.  I prefer to use extraction rates in points per pound per gallon because it is a directly applicable value.  Extraction efficiency is an indirect value that requires an additional weighted computation to be performed.

total_gravity_points = 6.25 * 60 (1.060 in gravity points) = 375

points_per_pound_per_gallon = total_gravity_points / grist_weight

points_per_pound_per_gallon = 375 / 16 = 23.44

What this value means in layman's terms is that the original recipe was formulated to achieve an extraction rate of 23.44 gravity points per pound of grain, that is, the extract from one pound grain dissolved in a one gallon solution has a specific gravity of 1.02344  That's a value that can be easily applied in one brew house. Working the other way yields:

original_gravity = points_per_pound_per_gallon * grist_weight / batch_volume / 1000  + 1.0

original_gravity = 23.44 * 16 / 6.25 / 1000 + 1.0 = 1.060

The way to determine one's brew house extraction rate in points per pound per gallon is to simply track the original gravity and total final boil volume minus the break and hops for each batch.  For each batch in the sample, calculate a batch extraction rate using the following formula:

batch_extraction_rate = original_gravity_in_points * batch_total_volume / grist_weight

I calculate this value when I take my original gravity reading.  After a few batches have been brewed, it's time to calculate an average batch extraction by summing the batch extraction rates and dividing by the number of batch extraction rates.

Batch Extraction Rates

Batch #1 - 28 points per pound per gallon
Batch #2 - 27 points per pound per gallon
Batch #3 - 29 points per pound per gallon
Batch #4 - 30 points per pound per gallon
Batch #5 - 29 points per pound per gallon

average_batch_extraction_rate = 28 + 27 + 29 + 30 + 29 / 5 = 28.6

Now, we can convert the recipe to our brew house by calculating a grist scaling factor.  Our extraction rate is higher than the original extraction rate; therefore, this value will be less than one.

grist_scaling_factor = 23.44 / 28.6 = 0.82

All we need to do from this point forward is to multiply every quantity in the grist by 0.88 to scale the grist to our brew house.  We do not need to adjust the hop bill because the bitterness unit to gravity unit ratio will remain the same.

While what I just wrote seems like a lot of work, what you will find over time is that these calculations become automatic, and you will no longer have to compute an average batch extraction rate because your extraction rates will converge within a close enough range that you can ball park it without actually performing the calculation.  When that happens, you will be able to look at a recipe for 6.25 gallons 1.060 wort, and think I need to use 60 / 28.6 = 2.1 pounds of malt per gallon to hit that gravity.  At that point, you will prefer to look at recipes as percentages, which is the way that professional brewers state recipes.  For example, we are making a bigger version of SNPA, which is often quoted as having a grist that is 95% 2-Row and 5% C60.

total_grist_weight = 2.1 * 6.25 = 13.125 pounds

pounds_of_2Row = 13.125 * 0.95 = ~12.5
pounds_of_C60 = 13.125 * 0.05 = ~0.65

As you have more than likely already ascertained, the values add up to more than 13.125 pounds.  I rounded to make measuring a little easier.

With the above said, why should anyone learn how to perform these calculations when brewing software will shield one from having to learn this information?  Well, learning how to brew using brewing software is not the same thing as learning how to brew.  Learning how to brew means mastering all of the brewing fundamentals that are encapsulated in brewing software.

I hand calculate my recipes. I use points but my formula is different. I do batch points the same. Final volume x gravity points. But that's where it ends. I determine the percentages of each grain in the bill. Let's say 80% two row. We'll just use your example. 80% x 375 = 300. Now I need to know the potential extract of the malt. With two row, it's 38. And I need to know the brewhouse efficiency. In my case, it's 75%. So, I divide my points by potential extract x brewhouse efficiency.

300/(38x.75) = 10.53

So, This recipes calls for 10.5 lbs of two row. I'll do the same process for the rest of the malts.

This method is from Daniels "Designing Great Beers"

It's simple and works for me. It's pretty automatic for me at this point.

I guess we'll both be drinking with the zombies
Frank

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Next up...
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2015, 01:31:13 PM »
This thread is giving me an idea that I should brew a couple batches each year with just pencil and paper, just so I don't forget my math. Maybe grab a good commercial example of a style I dont normally brew and try to get close just using my taster and pencil n paper.