Author Topic: wyeast 2278  (Read 1760 times)

Offline bierview

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wyeast 2278
« on: January 27, 2015, 07:30:53 PM »
is 48 degrees too cold for this strain?

Thanks

BV

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: wyeast 2278
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2015, 07:33:58 PM »
is 48 degrees too cold for this strain?

Thanks

BV

not at all. i pitch at 46 and let it rise up to 49-50F and hold.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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Offline bierview

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Re: wyeast 2278
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2015, 07:36:47 PM »
Thanks Ken.  Wyeast site says 50-58.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: wyeast 2278
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2015, 07:41:02 PM »
Thanks Ken.  Wyeast site says 50-58.

i know..drives me and others crazy. they want your experience with their yeast to be 100%, so often list temps higher than needed or IMO best for the beer.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
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Dort
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Offline bierview

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Re: wyeast 2278
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2015, 08:22:21 PM »
I think for a Czech Pilsner colder is better.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: wyeast 2278
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2015, 08:26:06 PM »
I think for a Czech Pilsner colder is better.

not sure, but every lager yeast i've used gets pitched around 46F and ferments 49-50F for about 5 days. when i first made lagers pitching warmer and fermenting warmer...bad results.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: wyeast 2278
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2015, 08:27:37 PM »

not sure, but every lager yeast i've used gets pitched around 46F and ferments 49-50F for about 5 days. when i first made lagers pitching warmer and fermenting warmer...bad results.

+1
Jon H.

musseldoc

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Re: wyeast 2278
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2015, 01:31:38 PM »
Perfect temp.  I believe they have to give the full temp ranges for both folks who use starters and those who only smack the pack.   

S. cerevisiae

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Re: wyeast 2278
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2015, 03:55:02 PM »
Colder is not necessarily better with Saccharomyces pastorianus (S. pastorniaus).  Not all lager strains are equally cold tolerant.

There are two different families of strains in the S. pastorianus family, one of which is more cold tolerant than the other.  Czech and Danish strains belong to the Saaz family.  Saaz-type lager strains are triploids with two sets of what it is currently believed to be S. eubayanus chromosomes and one set of Saccharomyces cerevisiae chromosomes (S. cerevisiae).  German strains tend to belong to the Frohberg family. Frohberg strains are tetraploids with two sets of S. eubayanus chromosomes and two sets of S. cerevisiae chromosomes.  Most S. pastorianus strains have chromosome deletions and/or additions (aneuploidy).  The genetic contribution by S. eubayanus is what gives S. pastorianus its cold tolerance.   Saaz strains are more cold tolerant than Frohberg strains because their genetic make up is 2/3rds S. eubayanus.

With the above said, can anyone guess why W-34/70 is forgiving at higher temperatures than one would normally believe possible with a lager strain? If you guessed that it is a Frohberg strain, then you are starting to understand the impact that genetics has on yeast performance.  In order to achieve best performance from W-34/70, fermentation temperature should not be allowed to drop below 50F (W-34/70 is half ale yeast from a genetic point of view). 

By the way, our knowledge of S. pastorianus is rapidly changing.  Diego Libkind's discovery spurred a new round of research into the origin of the yeast species.  Two years ago, Saaz yeast strains were believed to be diploids with one set of what it is currently believed to be S. eubayanus chromosomes and one set of Saccharomyces cerevisiae chromosomes whereas Frohberg strains were believed to be triploids with one set of S. eubayanus chromosomes and two sets of Saccharomyces cerevisiae chromosomes.   Improvements in genetic sequencing are leading to new knowledge of a yeast species that appears to have not existed before the 15th century.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 01:47:48 AM by S. cerevisiae »

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: wyeast 2278
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2015, 04:20:51 PM »
Colder is not necessarily better with Saccharomyces pastorianus (S. pastorniaus).  Not all lager strains are equally cold tolerant.

There are two different families of strains in the S. pastorianus family, one of which is more cold tolerant than the other.  Czech and Danish strains belong to the Saaz family.  Saaz-type lager strains are triploids with two sets of what it is currently believed to be S. eubayanus chromosomes and one set of Saccharomyces cerevisiae chromosomes (S. cerevisiae).  German strains tend to belong to the Frohberg family. Frohberg strains are tetraploids with two sets of S. eubayanus chromosomes and two sets of S. cerevisiae chromosomes.  Most S. pastorianus strains have chromosome deletions and/or additions (aneuploidy).  The genetic contribution by S. eubayanus is what gives S. pastorianus its cold tolerance.   Saaz strains are more cold tolerant than Frohberg strains because their genetic make up is 2/3rds S. eubayanus.

With the above said, can anyone guess why W-34/70 is forgiving at higher temperatures than one would normally believe possible with a lager strain? If you guessed that it is a Frohberg strain, then you are starting to understand the impact that genetics has on yeast performance.  In order to achieve best performance from W-34/70, fermentation temperature should not be allowed to drop below 50F (W-34/70 is half ale yeast from a genetic point of view). 

By the way, our knowledge of S. pastorianus is rapidly changing.  Diego Libkind's discovery spurred a new round of research into the origin of the yeast species.  Two years ago, Saaz yeast strains were believed to be diploids with one set of what it is currently believed to be S. eubayanus chromosomes and one set of Saccharomyces cerevisiae chromosomes whereas Frohberg strains were believed to be triploids with one set of S. eubayanus chromosomes and two sets of Saccharomyces cerevisiae chromosomes.   Improvements in genetic sequencing are leading to new knowledge of a yeast strain that appears to have not existed before the 15th century.

Mark- you have data on WLP830-interested as I use it very often.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

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Dort
Mead                 
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Amber Ale
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S. cerevisiae

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Re: wyeast 2278
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2015, 01:53:01 AM »
Mark- you have data on WLP830-interested as I use it very often.

WLP830 = Wyeast 2124 = W-34/70

W-34/70 is the most popular lager yeast strain in the world. 

There is another selection from strain 34 (the 70 part means that the strain was the seventieth selection from Weihenstephan strain #34).  It is called W-34/78.  I inquired about W-34/78 last year, but the propagation and shipping costs were really high.

http://www.hefebank-weihenstephan.de/strains.html

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wyeast 2278
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2015, 01:55:42 AM »
Mark- you have data on WLP830-interested as I use it very often.

WLP830 = Wyeast 2124 = W-34/70

W-34/70 is the most popular lager yeast strain in the world. 

There is another selection from strain 34 (the 70 part means that the strain was the seventieth selection from Weihenstephan strain #34).  It is called W-34/78.  I inquired about W-34/78 last year, but the propagation and shipping costs were really high.

http://www.hefebank-weihenstephan.de/strains.html

Thanks. Can you decipher this:

These demanding pure cultured yeast strains yield by good technological guidance excellent Beer. With raw grain additives of up to 40% accomplishes for the yeast by the usage of zinc that supports the metabolism and creates no problems. However the yeast stress reaction should be monitored. The original wort over 16% should be initially avoided with large tanks.

Also- how does this yeast impact beer PH ... If you've experience .


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« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 01:58:16 AM by wort-h.o.g. »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

S. cerevisiae

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Re: wyeast 2278
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2015, 02:19:34 AM »
Thanks. Can you decipher this:

These demanding pure cultured yeast strains yield by good technological guidance excellent Beer. With raw grain additives of up to 40% accomplishes for the yeast by the usage of zinc that supports the metabolism and creates no problems. However the yeast stress reaction should be monitored. The original wort over 16% should be initially avoided with large tanks.

That paragraph appears to be a machine (computer) translation from German to English.  The first sentence basically means that one needs to know what one is doing when working with W-34/70 and W-34/78 in order to achieve excellent results. The second sentence notifies brewers that they should add zinc when using up to 40% unmalted cereal grains.  The final sentence tells brewers to avoid pitching worts with gravities above 16% w/v (1.065 S.G.) on the initial pitch when using large fermentation tanks.

Quote
Also- how does this yeast impact beer PH ... If you've experience .

It's a lager yeast strain; therefore, the pH is going to higher than it would be it if you fermented the batch with an ale strain.  What that pH is going to be, I cannot tell you.  You will have to measure for yourself.

Offline bierview

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Re: wyeast 2278
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2015, 08:41:15 PM »
Website says attenuation between 70-74%.  After seven days in primary I am up to 79%.  What can I expect if I leave it on the yeast for another week?

BV

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Re: wyeast 2278
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2015, 09:50:42 PM »
Hard to say- attenuation targets are just targets. Your beer and your Process really
Define what's going to happen.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest