Author Topic: Dry yeast RO water  (Read 3088 times)

Offline JT

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Re: Dry yeast RO water
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2015, 11:21:19 am »
You could buy a few gallons of spring water to have on hand for starters if this is an issue.  First I'm hearing of it though, learn something every day.
Or couldn't he just add some salts (Epsom, non-iodized table salt, etc.) to his RO water?  Get the TDS up around 100 ppm or so.
Probably, but a liter or two would require a very small amount.  Would probably be tedious measuring.

Offline ScottBeh

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Re: Dry yeast RO water
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2015, 01:34:09 pm »
Ask Dan Listerman, he had the exchange with Clayton Cone about using distilled back in 2003 or so.

Thanks for that, I remember reading that exchange but couldn't remember who Dr. Cone was discussing it  with, it seems to have disappeared from the searching.  I am thinking the manufacturer had to use distilled as a baseline for developing GoFerm, what other random water would they choose, out of their tap? and say its the right dosage for everybody?  Surely  there is an optimal water profile.  When I use dry I use RO, follow mfr directions for GoFerm, never an issue, just always trying to improve and wondering if it could be better.

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Dry yeast RO water
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2015, 10:17:25 pm »
You could buy a few gallons of spring water to have on hand for starters if this is an issue.  First I'm hearing of it though, learn something every day.
Or couldn't he just add some salts (Epsom, non-iodized table salt, etc.) to his RO water?  Get the TDS up around 100 ppm or so.
Probably, but a liter or two would require a very small amount.  Would probably be tedious measuring.
True, but would tedious measuring be necessary?  A pinch of this and a few grains of that solves the problem.  Me thinks we over thinks much (I am often so guilty).  So what if it's 50 ppm TDS or 300, it will safely rehydrate the yeast.
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline JT

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Re: Dry yeast RO water
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2015, 01:21:05 am »
You could buy a few gallons of spring water to have on hand for starters if this is an issue.  First I'm hearing of it though, learn something every day.
Or couldn't he just add some salts (Epsom, non-iodized table salt, etc.) to his RO water?  Get the TDS up around 100 ppm or so.
Probably, but a liter or two would require a very small amount.  Would probably be tedious measuring.
True, but would tedious measuring be necessary?  A pinch of this and a few grains of that solves the problem.  Me thinks we over thinks much (I am often so guilty).  So what if it's 50 ppm TDS or 300, it will safely rehydrate the yeast.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Dry yeast RO water
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2015, 07:03:23 am »
Without any solutes to provide an osmolarity gradient, what is to keep the yeast cells from taking up so much water that they burst? You can kill someone by administering pure water intravenously; your blood cells end up taking up water to the point of lysis.

Um, osmotic pressure is very low. It should be pretty darn difficult to develop an osmotic pressure that significantly exceeds the internal pressure within the cell and causes it to burst.

The thing with administering pure water (intravenously or orally) is that it reduces the ionic content of the blood to the point that it disrupts the function of systems. It does not burst the cells or cause lysis.
Not true. Here's a case report of a fatal hemolytic reaction from just half a liter of water being infused IV:
http://www.ismp.org/newsletters/acutecare/articles/20030123.asp

Osmolarity is a very real concern when administering intravenous solutions. While hyperosmolar solutions are typically a bigger concern, osmotic pressure works both ways and too low is just as real a danger as too high.
Eric B.

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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Dry yeast RO water
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2015, 09:12:06 am »
Osmolarity is a very real concern when administering intravenous solutions. While hyperosmolar solutions are typically a bigger concern, osmotic pressure works both ways and too low is just as real a danger as too high.

Good points. The question then becomes what the proper range of osmolarity for yeast cell rehydration is? As most should recognize, wort has a huge ionic content and RO or DI water has virtually none. Deciphering what is tolerated the best by rehydrated yeast doesn't seem to be well researched, but the recommendation by Clayton Cone does seem to push that desired ionic content toward the low side.

On a related side note, it does appear that using a solute with magnesium instead of calcium for yeast rehydration is preferable. Yeast have a FAR lower need for calcium than for magnesium and infusing magnesium at this rehydration step does appear more beneficial. Calcium displaces magnesium from yeast cell walls and that can injure the cell performance. In addition, natural wort typically has 2 to 6 times more magnesium than calcium. So using a mineral like epsom salt for the ionic content for yeast rehydration is sound. 
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Offline JT

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Re: Dry yeast RO water
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2015, 11:25:26 am »
I'm assuming this all doesn't really apply if I'm making a starter with DME and distilled/RO for liquid yeast.  The DME should contain minerals of the water from which it was created, correct?

Offline denny

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Re: Dry yeast RO water
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2015, 11:30:49 am »
I'm assuming this all doesn't really apply if I'm making a starter with DME and distilled/RO for liquid yeast.  The DME should contain minerals of the water from which it was created, correct?

Yep.
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Offline narcout

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Re: Dry yeast RO water
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2015, 11:33:49 am »
I have fond childhood memories of passing through Yeehaw Junction on road trips with my dad.
Sometimes you just can't get enough - JAMC

Offline jeffy

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Re: Dry yeast RO water
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2015, 12:21:32 pm »
Did you have a burger at the Desert Inn?
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Offline ScottBeh

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Re: Dry yeast RO water
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2015, 01:59:07 pm »
Thank you Martin.  I've been digging and all I can find in 10-20 year old info. Various mfr are listing various degrees of hardness, but no consensus. Not much has been done recently.

On the burgers, how can you resist 18 ways and juicy?, I'll ride my burro into town for that. Central Florida history buffs will get it.  We used to have 3 or 4 gas stations, a couple restaurants and a HoJo.  They just bulldozed the HoJo, restaurants were burned down years ago when I95 went through, all that's left is a Pilot & Stuckeys & the Desert Inn.  The local crowd is impressive on a weekend night at The Inn, only once.


Offline erockrph

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Re: Dry yeast RO water
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2015, 09:23:53 pm »
Osmolarity is a very real concern when administering intravenous solutions. While hyperosmolar solutions are typically a bigger concern, osmotic pressure works both ways and too low is just as real a danger as too high.

Good points. The question then becomes what the proper range of osmolarity for yeast cell rehydration is? As most should recognize, wort has a huge ionic content and RO or DI water has virtually none. Deciphering what is tolerated the best by rehydrated yeast doesn't seem to be well researched, but the recommendation by Clayton Cone does seem to push that desired ionic content toward the low side.

Agreed. Real data always trumps conjecture.
Eric B.

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Offline narcout

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Re: Dry yeast RO water
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2015, 12:48:49 pm »
Sadly, I have never been inside the Desert Inn.  If I ever have the chance to pass through YJ again, I will definitely check it out.
Sometimes you just can't get enough - JAMC