Author Topic: origins of commercially available bretts  (Read 2970 times)

Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2015, 01:37:08 pm »
I've two batches of beer sitting on Brett brux in secondary for half a year now, and neither of them has released any funk. A mild tanginess maybe, but no funk, barnyard or other Bretty-characteristics.

Which brett did you use? Any idea why and how can it be avoided?

IME temperature, cell count, and culture health are the major factors in flavor development from brettanomyces.

For most brett strains I've used, regardless of count/health, flavor development slows down significantly (or just stops altogether) somewhere around 60F. This is a pretty big generalization with some exceptions, but a good rule of thumb if you're unfamiliar with a strain. I like to condition around 65F-68F.

Cell count and culture health go hand-in-hand. Pitching a relatively fresh vial or pack normally gives enough viable cells to eventually establish a healthy culture within the beer. Propagating a healthy and active slurry before pitching can dramatically speed up flavor development. Bottle dregs especially benefit from a few prop steps before pitching, and even more so if pitching into fermented beer.

Acidity and flavor from bacteria is a whole different story.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2015, 04:00:36 pm »
Check this out!  It appears that Brett trois from WL is actually a sacch. strain and maybe a new species!

http://suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.com/2014/12/brett-trois-riddle-wrapped-in-mystery.html

Offline bboy9000

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2015, 07:17:01 pm »

Check this out!  It appears that Brett trois from WL is actually a sacch. strain and maybe a new species!

http://suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.com/2014/12/brett-trois-riddle-wrapped-in-mystery.html

Yeah I've seen those reports but some claim the independent test Omega Labs had done has some flaws.  White Labs is also having an independent test done on the strain that is supposed to be more accurate but it isn't done (or the results haven't been released yet).   I've also seen pictures of fermentations with 100% Brettanomyces bruxellensis  trois that have pellicles.  So if it's not brett it may be a cool saccharomyces strain.  Regardless, the flavor profile of Brett brux trois sounds good so I just ordered three vials of it for a "farmhouse" ale with 100% "brett."
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Offline smkranz

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2015, 08:06:23 pm »

Check this out!  It appears that Brett trois from WL is actually a sacch. strain and maybe a new species!

http://suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.com/2014/12/brett-trois-riddle-wrapped-in-mystery.html

Yeah I've seen those reports but some claim the independent test Omega Labs had done has some flaws.  White Labs is also having an independent test done on the strain that is supposed to be more accurate but it isn't done (or the results haven't been released yet).   I've also seen pictures of fermentations with 100% Brettanomyces bruxellensis  trois that have pellicles.  So if it's not brett it may be a cool saccharomyces strain.  Regardless, the flavor profile of Brett brux trois sounds good so I just ordered three vials of it for a "farmhouse" ale with 100% "brett."

You won't regret it...this Saison was barreled (after primary fermentation with T-58) three months ago with Brett Trois and a little maltodextrin for it to chew on.  It smells and tastes like Brett, and the pellicle is a constant amazement to me.

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Offline bboy9000

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origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2015, 09:04:39 pm »
^Mmmmm.   Looks awesome.  If that's not Brett it's still cool stuff.  White Labs apparently got their Trois from a "reputable source" (I found a post from the source but can't remember who it was) from Avery 15.  BSI Drie is supposed to be the same strain but I don't know where BSI got their sample from.

Edit:  according to Chad Yakobson (The Brettanomyces Project; Crooked Stave). He got his sample from Avery 15 bottle dregs which Avery got from BSI, who cultured it from bottle dregs of Drie Fonteinen gueuze.  White Labs got it from someone who sourced it from from Avery 15 dregs but I still haven't found the post from the person who gave it to White Labs.  I thought it was on BBB.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 09:52:55 pm by bboy9000 »
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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2015, 02:52:26 am »
For most brett strains I've used, regardless of count/health, flavor development slows down significantly (or just stops altogether) somewhere around 60F. This is a pretty big generalization with some exceptions, but a good rule of thumb if you're unfamiliar with a strain. I like to condition around 65F-68F.


Ah. Mine have been sitting in the basement going through secondary at 60F tops. Might explain the lack of typical Brettiness.

Then again: one is a precursor-laden monsterbrew which seems to be an ideal playground for Brett to produce all kinds estery compounds, ranging from pineapple to band-aids. The other is chock full of quince chunks and syrup, plus a hefty dose of Belle Saison flavour, which I'm guessing is also something Brett will happily convert to more savoury things which are all not in the barnyard spectrum.

Note the use of "guessing" :)
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2015, 08:12:08 am »

Check this out!  It appears that Brett trois from WL is actually a sacch. strain and maybe a new species!

http://suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.com/2014/12/brett-trois-riddle-wrapped-in-mystery.html

Yeah I've seen those reports but some claim the independent test Omega Labs had done has some flaws.  White Labs is also having an independent test done on the strain that is supposed to be more accurate but it isn't done (or the results haven't been released yet).   I've also seen pictures of fermentations with 100% Brettanomyces bruxellensis  trois that have pellicles.  So if it's not brett it may be a cool saccharomyces strain.  Regardless, the flavor profile of Brett brux trois sounds good so I just ordered three vials of it for a "farmhouse" ale with 100% "brett."

I saw some other people ran tests and came to the same results about trois.

It's still a good strain that produces good flavors regardless of the species or label. I think the bigger issue is whether it produces good flavor pitched as a primary versus secondary fermentor and less so whether WL has a credibility issue. I might have heard somewhere that WL is claiming Trois was in a helicopter hit by an RPG. Not sure about that though.
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Offline Stevie

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2015, 08:15:59 am »

I might have heard somewhere that WL is claiming Trois was in a helicopter hit by an RPG. Not sure about that though.
Odd, I heard it was Obamacare.

Offline bboy9000

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2015, 08:36:40 am »


I might have heard somewhere that WL is claiming Trois was in a helicopter hit by an RPG. Not sure about that though.
Odd, I heard it was Obamacare.

I hear trois is in Iraq with the WMD's.
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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2015, 01:03:08 pm »
I think the bigger issue is whether it produces good flavor pitched as a primary versus secondary fermentor and less so whether WL has a credibility issue.

Well...nitpicking I know, but from a supplier of microbial products (live cultures in this case) I think the very least you'd expect would the taxonmic integrity.
Sure, from a practical point of view, the only thing that matters is the yeast's performance and how to handle it.
From a "we're serious company and serious about what we deliver" point of view, this is not something you ever want to happen.

That being said, if Trois gets you the flavours you want, by all means use it. Even if it's "just" another Sacch.

All truth is fiction.
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