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Author Topic: The ethics of keggles  (Read 10379 times)

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2015, 06:08:46 am »

Any brewery or distributor can immediately "change the deposit law" by charging the face value of the keg as a deposit. I don't get why the keg deposit can be as low as 20 or 30 bucks when the replacement cost is at 4 times that. Charge $100 bucks for a deposit a see how many kegs go missing.

Some of the ABC states specify the deposit or maximum deposit by law.  But in general, they don't want to raise the deposit because they make more money catering to the generally underage, poor frat-boy crowd which pays with whatever little cash they have.  The lack of ethics seems to have worked pretty well for the multi-millionaire executives at BMC  :D

I agree. I think it's a win-win for them. They're obviously more concerned with catering to the often younger, cash strapped 'kegger party' types than charging what would otherwise be replacement price deposits. And if they get a good number of their kegs actually returned to them, so much the better. If nothing else, BMC are not dumb or naive.

EDIT -  For the record, I don't own any keggles or stolen kegs. It's just hard to squeeze out many tears for companies that obviously have such a business strategy behind their keg policies.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 06:18:33 am by HoosierBrew »
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Offline leejoreilly

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2015, 08:16:26 am »
I bought a couple of kegs off a liquor store years ago... yea, probably 'stolen'. I don't feel guilty about it, they were a bit dented up and from budwieser. I didn't hurt any craft brewery in the process. I don't know why there always has to be ethics around buying used kegs... there is so much illegal stuff going on everyday, much much worse than this and we want to accept the guilt of buying a possibly 'stolen' keg... there are bigger threats out there to worry about.

So when I first read this, it bothered me, but I decided not to reply - too easy to sound like I'm moralizing. But it's kept bothering me, so I thought I'd give the EHall the opportunity to better express him/herself on his/her view of ethics, and hoping that his/her post was, perhaps, hastily and inelegantly worded.

EHall, do you really think that it's acceptable to act poorly (unethically), so long as someone else is acting worse? It's okay to steal a little if someone is stealing more? It's okay to rape so long as someone else is committing murder (yeah, that one was a big leap, but it's the same concept)? In my world there "has to be ethics around buying used kegs" because there are ethics around everything we do, to one degree or another. I recognize that some failings are greater than others, but they're still failings, right?

Well, so much for not moralizing. I feel better now. A little...

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2015, 09:12:21 am »
I get it, and we shouldn't be stealing kegs.

But the big breweries don't really care and that contributes to the problem.

I tried to return some empty kegs a few years ago that got left behind by a caterer.  Returning the kegs was hard to do.

The distributor didn't want them.  The brewery (Budweiser, if I recall correctly) didn't want to be bothered.  I don't recall the resolution, but we finally found someone to take them.  We might have just taken them to liquor store and left them.  There's a thread on here somewhere because I posted about it at the time.
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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2015, 09:23:21 am »
Any brewery or distributor can immediately "change the deposit law" by charging the face value of the keg as a deposit. I don't get why the keg deposit can be as low as 20 or 30 bucks when the replacement cost is at 4 times that. Charge $100 bucks for a deposit a see how many kegs go missing.

States set keg deposits. 

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2015, 09:25:36 am »
I get it, and we shouldn't be stealing kegs.

But the big breweries don't really care and that contributes to the problem.

I tried to return some empty kegs a few years ago .  Returning the kegs was hard to do.

The distributor didn't want them.

Yeah, that was my point, too, Joe.  I tried to return kegs before and ran into the same thing. It's clear that getting the kegs back isn't a huge concern, to say the least.  I didn't even want the damn things.  I set mine behind the liquor store I bought them from and drove off.  I think the moral struggle might be getting a little overblown.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2015, 09:27:10 am »
I think the moral struggle might be getting a little overblown.

To some degree, but there's a huge difference in impact between BMC and your local craft brewer.

BMC budgets for it and writes it off as a cost of doing business.

Your craft brewer gets hosed.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2015, 09:30:54 am »
I think the moral struggle might be getting a little overblown.

To some degree, but there's a huge difference in impact between BMC and your local craft brewer.

BMC budgets for it and writes it off as a cost of doing business.

Your craft brewer gets hosed.

Yes, totally. Huge difference. I agree. I was directing it at BMC keg practices.
Jon H.

Offline denny

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2015, 09:40:20 am »
If it says Budweiser I wouldn't give a flying eff.  They have so much power and lobbyist money that if it actually affected them, they'd bribe someone to change the deposit law.

Ethics and morals are not dependent on who you're stealing from.
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Offline troybinso

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2015, 09:45:35 am »
Any brewery or distributor can immediately "change the deposit law" by charging the face value of the keg as a deposit. I don't get why the keg deposit can be as low as 20 or 30 bucks when the replacement cost is at 4 times that. Charge $100 bucks for a deposit a see how many kegs go missing.

States set keg deposits.

States set the laws for keg deposits. In my state you can charge whatever you want for a deposit.

I quick search reveals a somewhat local brewery charges $125 for the keg deposit.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2015, 10:01:05 am »
I don't get why the keg deposit can be as low as 20 or 30 bucks when the replacement cost is at 4 times that. Charge $100 bucks for a deposit a see how many kegs go missing.

What have you ever rented that required you to put down the total replacement cost as a deposit? For many businesses that would drive off a significant portion of customers.
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Offline troybinso

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2015, 10:12:17 am »
I don't get why the keg deposit can be as low as 20 or 30 bucks when the replacement cost is at 4 times that. Charge $100 bucks for a deposit a see how many kegs go missing.

What have you ever rented that required you to put down the total replacement cost as a deposit? For many businesses that would drive off a significant portion of customers.

I guess the only two thing I have rented before were cars and keg shells. I didn't have to pay any deposit on the car, but I did have to give them my credit card and proof of insurance.

You can't find a keg deposit from a craft brewery in my neighborhood for less that $75 (cash), and some are as high as $150 (credit card).

I am not not not saying it is ok to steal a keg, but if the mega breweries were really worried about a lost keg they would raise the price of the deposit.

Offline leejoreilly

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2015, 10:52:57 am »
I don't get why the keg deposit can be as low as 20 or 30 bucks when the replacement cost is at 4 times that. Charge $100 bucks for a deposit a see how many kegs go missing.

What have you ever rented that required you to put down the total replacement cost as a deposit? For many businesses that would drive off a significant portion of customers.

I guess the only two thing I have rented before were cars and keg shells. I didn't have to pay any deposit on the car, but I did have to give them my credit card and proof of insurance.

You can't find a keg deposit from a craft brewery in my neighborhood for less that $75 (cash), and some are as high as $150 (credit card).

I am not not not saying it is ok to steal a keg, but if the mega breweries were really worried about a lost keg they would raise the price of the deposit.

So are you saying it's okay to steal something if it's not very well guarded or protected?

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2015, 10:56:19 am »
If it says Budweiser I wouldn't give a flying eff.  They have so much power and lobbyist money that if it actually affected them, they'd bribe someone to change the deposit law.

Ethics and morals are not dependent on who you're stealing from.

I learned about situational ethics during the Clinton years.  I'd put a smiley thing here, but those go against my moral code.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline troybinso

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2015, 10:58:02 am »
I don't get why the keg deposit can be as low as 20 or 30 bucks when the replacement cost is at 4 times that. Charge $100 bucks for a deposit a see how many kegs go missing.

What have you ever rented that required you to put down the total replacement cost as a deposit? For many businesses that would drive off a significant portion of customers.

I guess the only two thing I have rented before were cars and keg shells. I didn't have to pay any deposit on the car, but I did have to give them my credit card and proof of insurance.

You can't find a keg deposit from a craft brewery in my neighborhood for less that $75 (cash), and some are as high as $150 (credit card).

I am not not not saying it is ok to steal a keg, but if the mega breweries were really worried about a lost keg they would raise the price of the deposit.

So are you saying it's okay to steal something if it's not very well guarded or protected?

I am not not not saying it is ok to steal a keg.

I am just wondering why mega breweries don't charge more for a deposit. Why don't they seem concerned about losing a keg here and there?

« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 11:01:54 am by troybinso »

Offline phunhog

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2015, 12:43:53 pm »
I don't get why the keg deposit can be as low as 20 or 30 bucks when the replacement cost is at 4 times that. Charge $100 bucks for a deposit a see how many kegs go missing.

What have you ever rented that required you to put down the total replacement cost as a deposit? For many businesses that would drive off a significant portion of customers.
Very true. But....what have you ever rented where if you don't return the item you are only out your deposit?  This isn't the 1950's anymore.  Seriously....is there anyone out there that doesn't have a credit/debit card that can be used as a deposit?  Who puts down a cash deposit for anything (hotel room, car rental, tool rental, etc..)  anymore?  Now if keg theft was truly a problem for breweries they can certainly charge a full replacement value as a deposit. In those states where the government mandates the price of keg deposits....I am sure Big Beer has enough political clout that they could get the law changed easily if they WANTED the law to change.