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Author Topic: The ethics of keggles  (Read 10381 times)

Online Slowbrew

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2015, 03:37:59 pm »
I get it, and we shouldn't be stealing kegs.

But the big breweries don't really care and that contributes to the problem.

I tried to return some empty kegs a few years ago that got left behind by a caterer.  Returning the kegs was hard to do.

The distributor didn't want them.  The brewery (Budweiser, if I recall correctly) didn't want to be bothered.  I don't recall the resolution, but we finally found someone to take them.  We might have just taken them to liquor store and left them.  There's a thread on here somewhere because I posted about it at the time.

This was experience when a neighbor gave me a keg that he feel like returning.  I called the liquor store and the distributor whose label was on the keg.  They didn't care and seemed put out that I was insisting that I didn't want to steal their keg.   ???

I took it back to the distributor and basically made them take it.  Seemed kind of crazy.  I don't condone stealing kegs but they make it very hard to be honest.

Paul
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2015, 03:52:05 pm »

 I called the liquor store and the distributor whose label was on the keg.  They didn't care and seemed put out that I was insisting that I didn't want to steal their keg.   ???

 I don't condone stealing kegs but they make it very hard to be honest.


+100.  Yeah, that was my experience, Paul.  I did not want their kegs and (as mentioned) left them behind the liquor store after nobody would take them.  And I do understand how critical an investment kegs are to craft brewers, especially the smallest - not the same thing. But after this experience (and hearing other stories like yours), I have a hard time feeling sympathy for people who tell me that they don't want their kegs back.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2015, 03:58:05 pm »
As to sliding scale morality... some would say if you are going to drink beer you might as well steal it and kill the guy you stole it from. So, whose setting the moral standard is a good starting question. At work when I get asked if I dont have something better to do, im frequently tempted to say "Thats what the guy who I caught spitting on the sidewalk said, so I kicked him lose and found you."

Having said that, I would not keep a commercial keg even if I found it or someone tried to give it to me. It just isn't worth losing my ability to say I have earned everything I have. That might be higher standard BS but thats just how I am.

Regardless, not returning a keg is a civil issue, not a crime.


Edit: A cool idea comes to mind for a retirement gig. Keg Repo Man. Maybe parlay it into an A&E show....
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 04:03:08 pm by klickitat jim »

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2015, 04:04:40 pm »
It just isn't worth losing my ability to say I have earned everything I have.

Yep, I feel the same. I had a brewer friend telling me to make keggles out of them, but I had equipment that I liked (read : bought) and just didn't want to.   
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2015, 04:09:34 pm »
I prefer to mooch everything I have.

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2015, 04:13:39 pm »
 ;D
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Offline yso191

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2015, 07:18:32 pm »
This post is not intended to communicate that stealing empty kegs is OK - just adding to the conversation.

Looking at Stout's website, if one were to buy a single 1/2 bbl keg it would cost $114.  At the volume that BMC buys kegs I'm sure their cost approaches what the deposit amount is in many places - and in some places they may make money on them.

The one production brewery here in Yakima (Bale Breaker) charges a $100 deposit.
Steve
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narvin

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2015, 07:44:33 am »
If it says Budweiser I wouldn't give a flying eff.  They have so much power and lobbyist money that if it actually affected them, they'd bribe someone to change the deposit law.

Ethics and morals are not dependent on who you're stealing from.

And that's why their executives are multi-millionaires and you are not. 

As pointed out earlier, it's not criminal theft by law, if that makes a difference in your ethics..  Failure to return forfeits your deposit.  Don't think they haven't done the math. They are knowingly complicit in underage cash keg sales and choose to ignore it.  Cigarettes don't cause cancer, either.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 07:49:09 am by narvin »

Offline denny

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2015, 10:05:18 am »

And that's why their executives are multi-millionaires and you are not. 

As pointed out earlier, it's not criminal theft by law, if that makes a difference in your ethics..  Failure to return forfeits your deposit.  Don't think they haven't done the math. They are knowingly complicit in underage cash keg sales and choose to ignore it.  Cigarettes don't cause cancer, either.

No, my ethics are personal, not dictated by law.  They are also not dependent on someone else's ethics.  I do what I do because I believe it's the right thing to do.
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Offline phunhog

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2015, 11:07:13 am »
In the past there was such a thing as returnable bottles. You would pay a bottle deposit and you would get your money back when you returned the bottles.  If you never returned the bottles would that constitute stealing/theft?  Isn't the keg just one big returnable bottle?

Offline denny

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2015, 11:47:30 am »
In the past there was such a thing as returnable bottles. You would pay a bottle deposit and you would get your money back when you returned the bottles.  If you never returned the bottles would that constitute stealing/theft?  Isn't the keg just one big returnable bottle?

But I returned the bottles.
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narvin

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2015, 12:32:52 pm »

And that's why their executives are multi-millionaires and you are not. 

As pointed out earlier, it's not criminal theft by law, if that makes a difference in your ethics..  Failure to return forfeits your deposit.  Don't think they haven't done the math. They are knowingly complicit in underage cash keg sales and choose to ignore it.  Cigarettes don't cause cancer, either.

No, my ethics are personal, not dictated by law.  They are also not dependent on someone else's ethics.  I do what I do because I believe it's the right thing to do.

That is fine.  We all have our personal ethics.  I personally think that our American society has a serious discconnect in corporate vs personal ethics .  It's time the average person starts to look at life from a bottom line view.  Break some laws but the fine is less than the return?  It's the American way!

Online Slowbrew

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2015, 02:07:40 pm »
In the past there was such a thing as returnable bottles. You would pay a bottle deposit and you would get your money back when you returned the bottles.  If you never returned the bottles would that constitute stealing/theft?  Isn't the keg just one big returnable bottle?

But I returned the bottles.

It's possible these two things can be viewed equally.  I'm not the master judge of right and wrong.  To me there is a difference between the two ideas and that's my choice.  A case of bottles just sitting in you basement could be returned at any time to the store.  A stainless steel container with the top cut out of it can't.  To me the difference is intent.  If I forgot I had the bottles it isn't really theft but if I choose to destroy (in terms of original usage) someone's property it is; two different things.  That's just me though.

Seriously, I am not judging anyone.  I have often told my friends and family "to each their own and then some".  Unless I am directly affected, it's not my problem.

Paul
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narvin

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2015, 02:16:37 pm »
I only own one keg and I bought it brand new.  I just think the victimization of big business is an absolute joke.  They are the ones in control.

Offline Jimmy K

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Re: The ethics of keggles
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2015, 02:39:02 pm »
I get it, and we shouldn't be stealing kegs.

But the big breweries don't really care and that contributes to the problem.

I tried to return some empty kegs a few years ago that got left behind by a caterer.  Returning the kegs was hard to do.

The distributor didn't want them.  The brewery (Budweiser, if I recall correctly) didn't want to be bothered.  I don't recall the resolution, but we finally found someone to take them.  We might have just taken them to liquor store and left them.  There's a thread on here somewhere because I posted about it at the time.

This was experience when a neighbor gave me a keg that he feel like returning.  I called the liquor store and the distributor whose label was on the keg.  They didn't care and seemed put out that I was insisting that I didn't want to steal their keg.   ???

I took it back to the distributor and basically made them take it.  Seemed kind of crazy.  I don't condone stealing kegs but they make it very hard to be honest.

Paul
I think a major part of the problem is that the distributor and liquor store have no financial risk. The kegs don't belong to them so they lose nothing if you keep it. On the other hand, they do lose if they go out of their way to let people return them.
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