Author Topic: Pilsner Malt question  (Read 2730 times)

Offline -Liam-

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2015, 06:14:57 PM »
since you used 90% RO and 10% tap, presume you have water report for your tap water and used software to estimate your additions and PH?

I had been using tap water and making salt and acid malt additions which were calculated in EZ water. I had not really been happy with the results after a few batches so I changed to RO water. For this batch I based it on the water primer by AJ deLange which was posted over in Homebrew Talk. I had read that he likes to 'cut' his with 10% tap water also (I think!).

Doesn't the bohemian have a higher sms content (Dms precursor)?

If the floor malted Bo Pils from Weyermann was used then you may be right.

It was the Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner malt I used.

Is this batch going to be a dumper then?

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2015, 07:12:03 PM »
I'd still let it finish up, cold crash it and see if it cleans up. Unless you need the primary for something else, mind as well give it shot.


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Offline majorvices

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2015, 05:10:42 AM »
are you using any nutrients or copper in your boil kettle? Sulphur is more of a yeast health problem. I brew with pils in almost ever batch and it is not a problem.
Even your IPAs and such?

Well, no. Not IPAs. I should say "the majority of beers I brew" since the majority are Belgian and German styles.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2015, 06:41:49 AM »
If the smell is truly H2S (farty, rotten egg smell), then it is volatile and can either be vented or removed through contact with copper. I get it from lager strain and hefe strains during fermentation all the time. I also get it in ciders with ale strains if I don't add yeast nutrient.

If you keg, then you can blow it off by repeated CO2 purging. I haven't used copper to remove it post-fermentation - maybe someone here with experience can share their methods on that.

Edit - if it really smells like sulfur, then I doubt it's DMS. That is more of a cooked vegetable smell/flavor. In that case, it is really more related to the yeast than the malt. It just happens to be that many of the recipes that call for Pils malt (lagers and hefe's) also call for farty-smelling yeast strains.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 06:43:56 AM by erockrph »
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Offline -Liam-

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2015, 07:22:01 AM »
If the smell is truly H2S (farty, rotten egg smell), then it is volatile and can either be vented or removed through contact with copper. I get it from lager strain and hefe strains during fermentation all the time. I also get it in ciders with ale strains if I don't add yeast nutrient.

If you keg, then you can blow it off by repeated CO2 purging. I haven't used copper to remove it post-fermentation - maybe someone here with experience can share their methods on that.

Edit - if it really smells like sulfur, then I doubt it's DMS. That is more of a cooked vegetable smell/flavor. In that case, it is really more related to the yeast than the malt. It just happens to be that many of the recipes that call for Pils malt (lagers and hefe's) also call for farty-smelling yeast strains.

Yes, it's more of a 'farty' smell than a cooked veg aroma. When I swirled the hydrometer sample in a glass, the smell was 'released' even more and seemed stronger for a while.
I feel that the fermentation went quite well, and the fact that I used a 1.8L starter for an OG of 1.068 suggests to me that the yeast weren't too stressed during the process. I have only had this type of aroma in anything I've brewed using Pilsner malt.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2015, 07:30:55 AM »
If the smell is truly H2S (farty, rotten egg smell), then it is volatile and can either be vented or removed through contact with copper. I get it from lager strain and hefe strains during fermentation all the time. I also get it in ciders with ale strains if I don't add yeast nutrient.

If you keg, then you can blow it off by repeated CO2 purging. I haven't used copper to remove it post-fermentation - maybe someone here with experience can share their methods on that.

Edit - if it really smells like sulfur, then I doubt it's DMS. That is more of a cooked vegetable smell/flavor. In that case, it is really more related to the yeast than the malt. It just happens to be that many of the recipes that call for Pils malt (lagers and hefe's) also call for farty-smelling yeast strains.

Yes, it's more of a 'farty' smell than a cooked veg aroma. When I swirled the hydrometer sample in a glass, the smell was 'released' even more and seemed stronger for a while.
I feel that the fermentation went quite well, and the fact that I used a 1.8L starter for an OG of 1.068 suggests to me that the yeast weren't too stressed during the process. I have only had this type of aroma in anything I've brewed using Pilsner malt.

so this is interesting info. you only get this type of sulfur smell with pilsner-its not with specific yeast strains?

IMO its not the malt.  likely dealing with yeast stress and possibly infections. as mentioned in this thread, some sulfur is ok and normal in healthy wort and yeast. but when it doesn't go away or actually gets worse....something else is in play here.

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Offline -Liam-

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2015, 08:16:45 AM »
Well, I suppose any time I've used Pilsner malt it has probably been in conjunction with a strain that could go this way. I will let it sit longer in the primary and see if it dissipates by the time it's ready for bottling.

Offline -Liam-

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2015, 06:47:55 PM »
I think I just had a mini epiphany - Last night I decided to crack open a Saison  (Wyeast 3711) that I had brewed last July to see how it was aging. I was greeted (as expected from memory) with the same flavour/aroma that I have been experiencing with this stout...fast forward to this evening, I popped a bottle of La Trappe tripel half an hour ago, and wham!! - the same aroma/flavour. So after a brief browse online, I think what I'm experiencing are Phenols. Does this sound more like it? btw, the aroma in the primary seems to be far less than it was, and is now beginning to smell more fruity. I have not tasted another sample though, so I can't speak for that just yet.

Offline JT

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2015, 04:23:10 AM »
What temp are you fermenting at?  Are you measuring actual beer temperature during fermentation or room temperature?

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2015, 05:54:17 AM »

What temp are you fermenting at?  Are you measuring actual beer temperature during fermentation or room temperature?


Right..thinking fusels


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

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Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
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Amber Ale
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Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline -Liam-

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2015, 06:13:01 AM »
What temp are you fermenting at?  Are you measuring actual beer temperature during fermentation or room temperature?

I fermented @ 68F in my cooler. I have my temperature probe taped to the wall of my carboy and then covered in bubble wrap, so I think that should be close to what the actual beer temp was during fermentation

Offline JT

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2015, 06:32:35 AM »
What temp are you fermenting at?  Are you measuring actual beer temperature during fermentation or room temperature?

I fermented @ 68F in my cooler. I have my temperature probe taped to the wall of my carboy and then covered in bubble wrap, so I think that should be close to what the actual beer temp was during fermentation
Can you elaborate just a bit more? 
By cooler, are you talking about a hard side picnic type cooler, or a refrigerator?   If it is a hard side cooler, does it have water in it? 
Does the probe connect to any type of temperature control device or is it just reading temperature?

Offline -Liam-

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2015, 07:08:49 AM »
What temp are you fermenting at?  Are you measuring actual beer temperature during fermentation or room temperature?

I fermented @ 68F in my cooler. I have my temperature probe taped to the wall of my carboy and then covered in bubble wrap, so I think that should be close to what the actual beer temp was during fermentation
Can you elaborate just a bit more? 
By cooler, are you talking about a hard side picnic type cooler, or a refrigerator?   If it is a hard side cooler, does it have water in it? 
Does the probe connect to any type of temperature control device or is it just reading temperature?

Oh sorry...it's a wine cooler minifidge and I have it connected to a temperature controller. I then attach the thermometer sensor probe to the side of the carboy. I think it does a pretty good job of keeping the beer at stable temperatures.

Offline JT

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2015, 07:23:20 AM »
What temp are you fermenting at?  Are you measuring actual beer temperature during fermentation or room temperature?

I fermented @ 68F in my cooler. I have my temperature probe taped to the wall of my carboy and then covered in bubble wrap, so I think that should be close to what the actual beer temp was during fermentation
Can you elaborate just a bit more? 
By cooler, are you talking about a hard side picnic type cooler, or a refrigerator?   If it is a hard side cooler, does it have water in it? 
Does the probe connect to any type of temperature control device or is it just reading temperature?

Oh sorry...it's a wine cooler minifidge and I have it connected to a temperature controller. I then attach the thermometer sensor probe to the side of the carboy. I think it does a pretty good job of keeping the beer at stable temperatures.
Yeah that should do the trick.  I've actually taped a probe to the side of a carboy AND immersed a probe into the beer.  They both read the same.  FWIW so did the stick - on fermometer. 
If you're getting the same notes from La Trappe and you're brewing the same style, then well done.  If you're getting those flavors and aromas in styles you don't want them in, I'd say look at the common fermentation culprits: sanitation, temperature control, pitching rates and aeration.  Also look at the specifics for each yeast strain.  I generally look them up on the manufacturers site and target the low end of the fermentation range.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 07:52:45 AM by JT »

Offline -Liam-

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Re: Pilsner Malt question
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2015, 07:29:28 AM »
I suppose WLP500 is a trappist yeast, so I'm wondering if the taste/aroma is exactly what is supposed to show up in the beer. FWIW, I didn't love the La Trappe Tripel last night because of these characteristics. They were just a little too overpowering for my liking. I hadn't had it for years, but I don't remember the phenols being that strong last time.