Author Topic: origins of commercially available bretts  (Read 1296 times)

Offline homoeccentricus

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origins of commercially available bretts
« on: February 10, 2015, 01:07:05 PM »
Is it known what the origins of commercially available bretts from Wyeast and White Labs are?

I assume the "Trois" is Drie Fonteinen? How about the other ones?
Frank P.

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Offline erockrph

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2015, 06:18:10 PM »
White Labs' Brett Trois was allegedly Brett brux var Trois from Drie Fonteinen, but there has been some controversy about that recently:

http://embracethefunk.com/2014/12/11/brettanomyces/

That is the only commercial Brett strain that I have heard a source for, but others may have info that I'm not familiar with.
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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2015, 07:05:15 PM »
That's very interesting.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2015, 07:06:29 PM »
Interesting! It's just that Unclebrazzie and myself are contemplating brewing a Supplication inspired beer, and supposedly three strains of brett are pitched at some point...
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Offline erockrph

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2015, 07:52:20 PM »
I will say that using WL's Brett Trois in secondary got me zero Brett character even over a year. They have marketed it as a strain for Brett-primary beers, and this seems to make sense in light of the current information.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2015, 08:05:18 PM »
So we'll skip the Trois. This leaves us with the Brett. Bruxellensis and Lambicus as pure brett strains? And maybe pluck some yeasties out of the sky?
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Offline erockrph

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2015, 08:15:26 PM »
So we'll skip the Trois. This leaves us with the Brett. Bruxellensis and Lambicus as pure brett strains? And maybe pluck some yeasties out of the sky?
White labs also offers Brett clausenii. I'm not sure if some of the smaller yeast banks like East Coast Yeast and Gigayeast offer other Brett strains isolated from commercial or wild samples.
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Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2015, 08:46:58 PM »
So we'll skip the Trois. This leaves us with the Brett. Bruxellensis and Lambicus as pure brett strains? And maybe pluck some yeasties out of the sky?

Both of the Brett B./Brett L. strains offered by Wyeast are also in their Roselare blend.

If you like the Brett character of Supplication, why not use Supplication bottle dregs?
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2015, 08:54:38 PM »
That's the way Supplication is made: first ale yeast, then brett+ sour cherries, and then bacteria. So in the third phase dregs can be added.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2015, 11:01:00 PM »
I will say that using WL's Brett Trois in secondary got me zero Brett character even over a year. They have marketed it as a strain for Brett-primary beers, and this seems to make sense in light of the current information.

Interesting.  Last September I pitched a 500 mL starter (no stir plate) of active brett trois into a keg of saison (dried out to 1.005) and within 6 weeks at room temps the beer was very funky.  The WL vials have such a small amount of brett in them that you really almost have to wake it up first to get quicker results.  At least IME. 

Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2015, 09:45:18 AM »
I've two batches of beer sitting on Brett brux in secondary for half a year now, and neither of them has released any funk. A mild tanginess maybe, but no funk, barnyard or other Bretty-characteristics.

That being said:

Trois is indeed a strain cultivated from Drie Fonteinen Oude Geuze (I think Mike Tonsmeire mentions this somewhere in American Sour Beers).

Here's a comprehensive list.

Also: these guys seem pretty deep into yeast...as are these guys.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2015, 11:56:37 AM »
I've two batches of beer sitting on Brett brux in secondary for half a year now, and neither of them has released any funk. A mild tanginess maybe, but no funk, barnyard or other Bretty-characteristics.

Which brett did you use? Any idea why and how can it be avoided?
Frank P.

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Online klickitat jim

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2015, 01:00:42 PM »
Ive had recent good luck with both Roselare pitched straight, no starter, and with doing a 1 week lacto at 90-100º then dropping to 68º and pitching Brett L. Both have plenty of acid and cherry-pie brettiness. The difference is the Roselare takes 8 months to a year kettle to glass, and the lacto-brett L was ready in 3 months.

Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2015, 01:30:30 PM »
Which brett did you use?

Wyeast 5112 Brett brux


Any idea why and how can it be avoided?
Because that's what I had, and don't pitch it?
What precisely do you/we want to avoid? The yeast? The Brettiness? The absence of Brettiness?

From what Wyeast would have me believe, the brux strain should produce typical Bretty horse sweat flavours and all that. One brew (the dreaded vomit Gose) contains a plethora or oraganic precursors for Brett to convert into esters. The other's got a lots of fruit. Neither is showing any horseblanket character at all, and only very very mild acidity (more tart than acidic, but that's explainable by the lack of oxygen present).

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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: origins of commercially available bretts
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2015, 02:13:06 PM »
The more I think about it, and the more (or as the case may be, less) information I find lying about the place, the more I get the feeling that Brett fermentation is still very much in the Godisgood stage. We seem to have little understanding of the specifics of fermenting wuith Bretts and even of the peculiarities of Brett's metabolism, and quite a few pitching schedules (like Vinnie's elaborate "Sacch followed by Brett followed by Lacto&Pedio plus two more Bretts") seem almost like a clever ruse to give a semblance of reproducibility to the whole affair.

Almost as if "Just pitch some dregs from whatever sour your have on hand" sounds too un-scientific.

[/musingsendhere]
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