[unclebrazzie]

I've a quince saison sitting in secondary for about 4 months now.

Recipe's kinda simple, apart from the quince additions:

For 5gal of SG 1.060:

6.6 lbs pale malt
3.5 lbs of wheat malt
0.8 lbs of pilsner
1 lbs of carapils

mashed at 167 for an hour, boiled for 75' with
25g EKG at FWH
45g at T-15

Fermented with Belle Saison at room temp with no temp control.

After a week, with primary starting to slow down, racked into secondary onto the following, which I'd prepared a few days in advance:
8 quinces, cut into roughly 1inch cubes. Cored, but unpeeled.
1lbs of sugar
.5 lbs of honey
1 vanilla pod
2 star anise
5 cloves
1/2 stick of cinnamon
15 grains of all-spice
Simmered until bright pink and soft.

Also pitched a pack of Brett brux (Wyeast 5112).

Now, 4 months later, most of the Belle Saison vibe is gone/transmogrified by the Brett and the beer smells very fruity and is opaque and pink. I'm picking up a hint of sourness but very mellow and in the background.

My plan is to add about a half pound of homemade membrillo paste I've stocked in the fridge to deepen the color and boost the quince aromatics.

Two things I'd appreciate your advice on:

1) when to rack the beer off the fruit and add the membrillo (if in fact I shouldn't just add the membrillo and not bother racking at this stage).

2) will the Brett add sourness this way? I've been tempted to stir a bit of oxygen into it just to provoke it into creating a bit of acetic, but I'm thinking it's lactic I want instead of vinegar.

Your 2cents very much welcomed

[pete b]

Others will know much more about your second question. As to the first I think I would cut the membrillo into small cubes, put in a carboy and rack off the quince and onto the membrillo. That way when its ready to package it will be easy to rack because the membrillo won't create as much gunk at the bottom and you have already got what you will from the quince and spices.
I just noticed you cooked the quince. Did you use pectic enzyme? If not you may have a very cloudy beer. Not the worst thing in the world for a saison but not ideal. Anyway sounds great, quince should play well with a bretted saison.

[kylekohlmorgen]

Complex! How's it taste so far? Does it need the membrillo paste?

1. Does the paste have seeds? If so, it might be best to add it in a reusable mesh bag. Add it in the keg if you can. If no kegs, rack on top of the paste in secondary.

2. Brett wont add much sourness, but over time it will dry out the beer, leaving a perception of acidity (or at least I gather from competition feedback I receive on un-soured brett saisons). I think Belle gives a similar perception when attenuation is high (i.e. both times I used it).

Oxygen won't conjure acidity from brett, but it will oxidize the beer and reduce aromatics from the yeast, fruit and spices.

I think you posted to the "adding sourness post-fermentation" thread a week or so ago. If not, check it out.

[unclebrazzie]

I just noticed you cooked the quince. Did you use pectic enzyme? If not you may have a very cloudy beer. Not the worst thing in the world for a saison but not ideal.

Nope, no pectic enzyme. I can live with the cloudiness which, like you say, isn't a bad thing in saison anyway.

My membrillo is quite loose, more like a thick jam than an actual candy, so I think I'll have to either spoon it into secondary or dissolve it again.

How's it taste so far? Does it need the membrillo paste?

It tastes fruity-bubblegummy. One hapless victim who tasted a recent gravity sample said something akin to "I'm probably way off the mark here but this reminds me of quince" so I must be doing something right
What's missing is that big, fragrant exoticness you get from both the raw fruit (ahhh...the smell of quince...) and the membrillo, which is why I'd still like to add it.

1. Does the paste have seeds? If so, it might be best to add it in a reusable mesh bag. Add it in the keg if you can. If no kegs, rack on top of the paste in secondary.

I take it you mean sclereids? That stony, gritty quality of pear flesh? Yes, it's got that.
No kegs. The beer will be bottled and conditioned.

Oxygen won't conjure acidity from brett, but it will oxidize the beer and reduce aromatics from the yeast, fruit and spices.

I was led to believe that Brett metabolism involves production of acetic acid in the presence of oxygen, at the expense of ethanol production.

I think you posted to the "adding sourness post-fermentation" thread a week or so ago. If not, check it out.

Did and will again, thx!

[reverseapachemaster]

Trying to give brett oxygen to create acetic acid is a fickle process that few people really seem to know how to do well. There's an obvious risk that, as Kyle describes, you will lose some of the flavors you like about the beer in search of acidity and you may lose more than you gain. If you're really desperate to get a small amount of acidity I would encourage you to first let brett dry out the beer and see if you are happy with that and if not then add lactic acid or acetic acid (if you really want it) before bottling.

[unclebrazzie]

Yeah. I reckon a large part of the Brett+acetic process is sort of regulated through barrel ageing and pretty hard to mimic without.
I'm leaving the Brett to chew on the fruit a bit longer (airlock is still but won't remain level after sampling) and will check again in a month or two. Then, it's onto the membrillo and maybe some lacto. Prolly not though as I don't want to overdo it with this one.