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Author Topic: English Crystal Malts Mistaken for Diacetyl?  (Read 6638 times)

Offline Frankenbrew

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Re: English Crystal Malts Mistaken for Diacetyl?
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2015, 08:24:20 am »
I think there are a few possibilities really. Either the judges got it right and your beer has diacetyle,  or they got it right but your beer got switched by a steward, or they got it wrong.

That's pretty much it, yet I hadn't thought about it getting switched somewhere along the line.
Frank C.

And thereof comes the proverb: 'Blessing of your
heart, you brew good ale.'

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: English Crystal Malts Mistaken for Diacetyl?
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2015, 09:05:10 am »
I think there are a few possibilities really. Either the judges got it right and your beer has diacetyle,  or they got it right but your beer got switched by a steward, or they got it wrong.

That's pretty much it, yet I hadn't thought about it getting switched somewhere along the line.
Its really hard to say what the deal is. If you are convinced its not diacetyle then there ya go, someone screwed up. The tough part to get past is that the guidelines do not say "No Diacetyle" and allow for some butteriness and carmel character.  Having said that, it is what it is.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 09:09:39 am by klickitat jim »

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: English Crystal Malts Mistaken for Diacetyl?
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2015, 09:39:15 am »
I think there are a few possibilities really. Either the judges got it right and your beer has diacetyle,  or they got it right but your beer got switched by a steward, or they got it wrong.

Or there was some precursor that got exposed to O2 at bottling. This has happened to me bottling from a keg, tasting control bottles when reading the score sheet, diacytel was there, but not from the keg of the same beer.
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Offline Frankenbrew

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Re: English Crystal Malts Mistaken for Diacetyl?
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2015, 03:51:45 pm »
I think there are a few possibilities really. Either the judges got it right and your beer has diacetyle,  or they got it right but your beer got switched by a steward, or they got it wrong.

Or there was some precursor that got exposed to O2 at bottling. This has happened to me bottling from a keg, tasting control bottles when reading the score sheet, diacytel was there, but not from the keg of the same beer.

Huh! I did bottle from the keg, so in theory, it could be that.

The only thing is: I think I can smell what they were talking about; it's just that it's not D. I'm sure that it's toffee, which is supposed to be there. It does somewhat resemble butterscotch, I suppose.

I'm over it. I like the beer; my friends like the beer; Judge be damned; it's a good Irish Red!  :D
Frank C.

And thereof comes the proverb: 'Blessing of your
heart, you brew good ale.'

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: English Crystal Malts Mistaken for Diacetyl?
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2015, 05:22:55 pm »
I think there are a few possibilities really. Either the judges got it right and your beer has diacetyle,  or they got it right but your beer got switched by a steward, or they got it wrong.

Or there was some precursor that got exposed to O2 at bottling. This has happened to me bottling from a keg, tasting control bottles when reading the score sheet, diacytel was there, but not from the keg of the same beer.

Huh! I did bottle from the keg, so in theory, it could be that.

The only thing is: I think I can smell what they were talking about; it's just that it's not D. I'm sure that it's toffee, which is supposed to be there. It does somewhat resemble butterscotch, I suppose.

I'm over it. I like the beer; my friends like the beer; Judge be damned; it's a good Irish Red!  :D

The customer is you, the judges are critics. Listen to the customer first (or I also listen to my wife's opinions).
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: English Crystal Malts Mistaken for Diacetyl?
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2015, 06:27:37 pm »
Yup. Brew what you like and ignore it. It doesn't matter what they think unless you are trying to brew what they like

rabeb25

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Re: English Crystal Malts Mistaken for Diacetyl?
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2015, 06:45:08 pm »
Thats Ironic, I brewed an Irish Red, only my second in 15 years of brewing(first one was the first Kit I ever brewed).

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
9 lbs 9.4 oz          Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM)            Grain         1        93.7 %       
3.4 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)    Grain         2        2.1 %         
3.4 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)   Grain         3        2.1 %         
3.4 oz                Roasted Barley (Simpsons) (550.0 SRM)    Grain         4        2.1 %         
28.35 g               Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop           5        19.5 IBUs     
1.00 Items            Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)        Fining        6        -             
1.00 tsp              Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)          Other         7        -             
1.0 pkg               SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) [28 Yeast         8        -             


I didn't pick up butter, I picked up toffe and caramel. But I also have scoresheets here (from the Minnesota mash out) that state diacetyl, and have points off for it as well...........

Offline Frankenbrew

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Re: English Crystal Malts Mistaken for Diacetyl?
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2015, 06:21:05 am »
Thats Ironic, I brewed an Irish Red, only my second in 15 years of brewing(first one was the first Kit I ever brewed).

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
9 lbs 9.4 oz          Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM)            Grain         1        93.7 %       
3.4 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)    Grain         2        2.1 %         
3.4 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)   Grain         3        2.1 %         
3.4 oz                Roasted Barley (Simpsons) (550.0 SRM)    Grain         4        2.1 %         
28.35 g               Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop           5        19.5 IBUs     
1.00 Items            Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)        Fining        6        -             
1.00 tsp              Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)          Other         7        -             
1.0 pkg               SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) [28 Yeast         8        -             


I didn't pick up butter, I picked up toffe and caramel. But I also have scoresheets here (from the Minnesota mash out) that state diacetyl, and have points off for it as well...........

Yes, very ironic. Your recipe is almost the exact same thing as mine.

With the new BJCP guidelines being reviewed, maybe we should look for a line in the guidelines, like there is for Scottish ale that states, "toffee flavor maybe mistaken for diacetyl." Now's the time to lobby for something like that.
Frank C.

And thereof comes the proverb: 'Blessing of your
heart, you brew good ale.'

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: English Crystal Malts Mistaken for Diacetyl?
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2015, 06:33:35 am »

The customer is you, the judges are critics. Listen to the customer first (or I also listen to my wife's opinions).

^^ This ^^
Jon H.

Offline AmandaK

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Re: English Crystal Malts Mistaken for Diacetyl?
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2015, 07:10:21 am »
...But I also have scoresheets here (from the Minnesota mash out) that state diacetyl, and have points off for it as well...........

Probably the same UMMO judges that told me my multiple trip-to-NHC-finals, BOS winner, and winning percentage of 70% lambic has celery in it, giving it a 19. First and last time I heard than comment... sometimes you just gotta laugh it off.  ::) Us judges aren't perfect, that's for sure!
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: English Crystal Malts Mistaken for Diacetyl?
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2015, 03:31:54 pm »
...But I also have scoresheets here (from the Minnesota mash out) that state diacetyl, and have points off for it as well...........

Probably the same UMMO judges that told me my multiple trip-to-NHC-finals, BOS winner, and winning percentage of 70% lambic has celery in it, giving it a 19. First and last time I heard than comment... sometimes you just gotta laugh it off.  ::) Us judges aren't perfect, that's for sure!
Tell them its for your friends with celery-yack disease