Author Topic: Hefeweizen questions  (Read 1606 times)

Offline tommymorris

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Hefeweizen questions
« on: February 17, 2015, 06:18:10 PM »
I am brewing an extract this weekend with some friends from work who want to learn to brew. They bought a morebeer kit.

I have never made a hefe. So I have a question.

The kit is http://www.morebeer.com/products/german-hefeweizen-extract-beer-kit.html

OG 1046-1050
Yeast: White Labs Hefeweizen WLP300
I plan to make a 1L starter.

I usually pitch 4F below my ferm temp and let the beer rise to my desired point. If I do that will I mute the cloves and banana? My friends specifically want those flavors.

I think I will ferment at 66-68F.



Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Hefeweizen questions
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2015, 06:22:07 PM »
I am brewing an extract this weekend with some friends from work who want to learn to brew. They bought a morebeer kit.

I have never made a hefe. So I have a question.

The kit is http://www.morebeer.com/products/german-hefeweizen-extract-beer-kit.html

OG 1046-1050
Yeast: White Labs Hefeweizen WLP300
I plan to make a 1L starter.

I usually pitch 4F below my ferm temp and let the beer rise to my desired point. If I do that will I mute the cloves and banana? My friends specifically want those flavors.

I think I will ferment at 66-68F.

for wlp300, if you want a balance between clove and banana, pitch at 64F an dafter 48hours let it come up to 68F max.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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Offline brewday

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Re: Hefeweizen questions
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2015, 06:31:47 PM »
I've had good results following Gordon's schedule of pitching at 58 and fermenting at 65.  I get a balance of clove and banana doing this.

http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/ElHefe
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Hefeweizen questions
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2015, 07:08:34 PM »
I've had good results following Gordon's schedule of pitching at 58 and fermenting at 65.  I get a balance of clove and banana doing this.

http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/ElHefe

This is the way I have always done it, generally it will be more clove forward. If you want more banana follow wort hog's advice.

Offline brewday

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Re: Hefeweizen questions
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2015, 08:04:36 PM »
Does the fact that it's extract make a difference with the clove?  I've always done a ferulic acid rest with all-grain.

Also, major - what's your advice for pitch rate with a Hefeweizen?
Jon Weaver

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Hefeweizen questions
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2015, 08:37:06 PM »
I find that a ferulic rest is critical to getting these beers to come through with clove character. 111F is nice, 105F is even more pronounced.

While we're on this Hefe question: What about the question of purposely underpitching the weizen yeast to enhance ester production? I've always made a 1.5L starter, but my next Hefe may just rely on a freshly inflated Wyeast pack. Any thoughts on that approach?
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Re: Hefeweizen questions
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2015, 08:49:15 PM »
I find that a ferulic rest is critical to getting these beers to come through with clove character. 111F is nice, 105F is even more pronounced.

While we're on this Hefe question: What about the question of purposely underpitching the weizen yeast to enhance ester production? I've always made a 1.5L starter, but my next Hefe may just rely on a freshly inflated Wyeast pack. Any thoughts on that approach?

i wasn't happy with results when i pitched one vial into 1.052 wort. i think its a bit unpredictable and unrepeatable to approach it this way. and if you tend to pitch cooler, even more stress and possible under attenuation. i have been happy with 1L starter, and have not changed since doing so.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline brewday

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Re: Hefeweizen questions
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2015, 09:14:50 PM »
I find that a ferulic rest is critical to getting these beers to come through with clove character. 111F is nice, 105F is even more pronounced.

While we're on this Hefe question: What about the question of purposely underpitching the weizen yeast to enhance ester production? I've always made a 1.5L starter, but my next Hefe may just rely on a freshly inflated Wyeast pack. Any thoughts on that approach?

i wasn't happy with results when i pitched one vial into 1.052 wort. i think its a bit unpredictable and unrepeatable to approach it this way. and if you tend to pitch cooler, even more stress and possible under attenuation. i have been happy with 1L starter, and have not changed since doing so.

I've done the big starter and the single vial, but best ones have been with a starter slightly under <1L for 5 gallons.  Just wondering what others have found, and it sounds like we're on the same page.

If alestate is going for both clove and banana, but is using extract and therefore not able guarantee producing 4VG, I just wonder if there's a balance there for a clove forward fermentation temperature profile combined with a more banana producing pitch rate?

Jon Weaver

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Re: Hefeweizen questions
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2015, 10:47:13 PM »
I used to target a smaller pitch rate but now just do a standard stirred starter and pitch as for a regular ale.

I think I agree about the ferulic acid rest, but I also think you can get a really nice weissbier without a step mash.

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Re: Hefeweizen questions
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2015, 11:03:06 PM »
I tried underpitching hefe a few times and just use a standard size starter now. I pitch at 64 and ramp after 48 hours, to keep the banana in check. I always liked a balance of clove and banana better than a 'banana bomb'.
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: Hefeweizen questions
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2015, 11:07:08 PM »
Thanks for the tips. I will go with 1L starter and use Gordon Strong's fermentation schedule.

Regarding cloves versus bananas, we'll just get what we get. I am sure it will be good.

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Re: Hefeweizen questions
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2015, 12:30:12 AM »

I tried underpitching hefe a few times and just use a standard size starter now. I pitch at 64 and ramp after 48 hours, to keep the banana in check. I always liked a balance of clove and banana better than a 'banana bomb'.

Yep same here. I tend to like a balanced hefe more often. I've enjoyed them at each end of the spectrum, and sometimes even will brew a batch that way.

I think all things considered, I feel temp control is the best route to desired ester profile.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline erockrph

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Re: Hefeweizen questions
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2015, 01:02:33 AM »

I tried underpitching hefe a few times and just use a standard size starter now. I pitch at 64 and ramp after 48 hours, to keep the banana in check. I always liked a balance of clove and banana better than a 'banana bomb'.

Yep same here. I tend to like a balanced hefe more often. I've enjoyed them at each end of the spectrum, and sometimes even will brew a batch that way.

I think all things considered, I feel temp control is the best route to desired ester profile.

I agree completely. I use WY3638 for my hefe's and at the right temps you get nice banana esters with some vanilla and cinnamon to go with the clove phenolics. Too low, and the flavor just vanishes.
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Re: Hefeweizen questions
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2015, 11:26:05 PM »
I have recently been using WL 380 Hefeweizen IV yeast and really been enjoying the overall profile.  It pairs well with the high protein content in red wheat IME.  I tried with this last batch under pitching a tiny bit (around 1 qt starter) and pitching at 57F letting it rise to 63-64F to ferment then bumped to 65F to finish out.  Last batch I brewed gave a nice balance of clove/spice and banana with a hint of fruit (almost peachy or apricot in the nose). 

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Re: Hefeweizen questions
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2015, 12:18:28 AM »
I brewed a hefeweizen last summer with Wyeast 3068 (the equivalent to WLP300) and used the same schedule as Ken, pitch at 64F, rise to 68F.  It was a 2L stater pitched at high krausen.  It had a nice balance between banana and clove, but still was more towards the clove.  My only complaint was it didn't have enough of the bready flavor that I like from German beers, but that probably had more to do with the grain bill.  I used 60% red wheat and 40% pilsner.  Next time I may use some Munich or melanoidan malts or maybe do a single decoction.
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