Author Topic: How long for a Shaken-not-Stirred lager starter?  (Read 2401 times)

Offline Philbrew

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Re: How long for a Shaken-not-Stirred lager starter?
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2015, 04:17:00 PM »
I am interested to hear your results. I think one of the big reasons that so many brewers are hesitant to pitch the full volume of a rather large starter is because for a fully-attenuated/finished/flocculated stirplate starter there is a large risk for oxidation in the starter beer. I have to believe that the risk for oxidation is minimal for a shaken-not-stirred starter pitched at high krausen, because the yeast are still working and there is not a continuous introduction of O2.

You said that the starter beer tasted good, so right there that tells me that you are in good shape. Keep us posted!
I pitched the starters to the main worts at 8:00 last night.  Checked about 8:00 this morning and both have big krausen going (the schwarz is threatening to crawl out of the airlock).  Fridge is at 49*, the therm strips on the carboys say 52-54*.
I am ecstatic!  In my first attempt at lagers, two days before Christmas, I used not near enough old, poor dry lager yeast.  Lag time was 5 days and it took 5-1/2 weeks to ferment.  I'm just getting to drink some this week.  This forum has been a huge help.

I should add that, last night, the starters appeared to be past high krausen but still working actively.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 04:21:25 PM by Philbrew »
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Offline TMX

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Re: How long for a Shaken-not-Stirred lager starter?
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2015, 06:28:01 PM »
I have used this method, after a few long discussion with Mark, and have been totally won over.

I am not sure I will go back.  The ease, cost, and results are noting short of amazing!
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Ferm 1: Irish Red Ale
Ferm 2:

On Deck: American Wheat

Keg 1: Un-Common
Keg 2: Switchback Stout

Total Gallons brewed (2015) - 10

S. cerevisiae

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Re: How long for a Shaken-not-Stirred lager starter?
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2015, 03:10:39 PM »
I am interested to hear your results. I think one of the big reasons that so many brewers are hesitant to pitch the full volume of a rather large starter is because for a fully-attenuated/finished/flocculated stirplate starter there is a large risk for oxidation in the starter beer. I have to believe that the risk for oxidation is minimal for a shaken-not-stirred starter pitched at high krausen, because the yeast are still working and there is not a continuous introduction of O2.

In my humble opinion, the foulness found in a stirred starter is more the result of shear stress on the yeast cells than continuous introduction of O2.  That ugliness without an increase in performance is the reason why I quit using my stir plate and went back to my old starter method.

I developed my starter method during a period of time when my understanding of yeast was nowhere near what it is today.  Much like the discovery of penicillin, this method came about via serendipity.   I started out making one quart starters in a 48oz glass Ocean Spray juice container.  I went to make a starter and noticed that the container had sustained a sizable chip between uses.  I had a 1-gallon jug that I used for making mead, so it used it.  While no one would believe it today, I was seriously into strength training in my twenties and early thirties.  Shaking the dickens out of a starter was just the result of being very strong.   I noticed a huge increase in performance, so I stuck with the method long enough to understand why it worked.

I only offered the method to the forum because so many new brewers are led to believe that they cannot make healthy pitchable starters without making a sizable investment in an Erlenmeyer flask, a stir plate, and a stir bar.   I knew that that claim was not true because I propagated yeast cultures from slant for a very long time before I started to use a stir plate.  In reality, all that matters is adequate O2 and carbon coupled with good yeast transfer technique.  As I mentioned earlier, most brewing strains exhibit NewFlo flocculation; therefore, they do not need help remaining in suspension.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 02:39:09 AM by S. cerevisiae »

Offline Philbrew

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Re: How long for a Shaken-not-Stirred lager starter?
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2015, 04:28:51 PM »
Duly reporting progress as requested:  36 hours after pitching starters to main worts.

HOLY COW!  I should have rigged blow off tubes.  For lagers at 49* F ?  Whoda thunk it.
Now I've got a mess to clean up in the fridge.
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline Philbrew

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Re: How long for a Shaken-not-Stirred lager starter?
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2015, 04:48:18 PM »

I only offered the method to the forum because so many new brewers are led to believe that they cannot make healthy pitchable starters without making a sizable investment in an Erlenmeyer flask, a stir plate, and a stir bar.   
Exactly my bit*h!  And since my brew fridge can accommodate two 6.5 gal. carboys, I like to brew two batches on the same day.  That means that I would need two heavy duty stir plates and two 5 L flasks w/stir bars.  A $400 cost that I could better use on other stuff.
Plus, that would mean eating the cost of 5-8 L of spent starter wort/beer that I would have to rack off and throw out.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 05:05:23 PM by Philbrew »
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline HobsonDrake

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Re: How long for a Shaken-not-Stirred lager starter?
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2015, 07:55:04 PM »
twenties and early thirties.  Shaking the dickens out of a starter was just the result of being very strong.   I noticed a huge increase in performance, so I stuck with the method long enough to understand why it worked.

Just to understand your process, is this shaking with or without the yeast in the wort starter?
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Offline Philbrew

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Re: How long for a Shaken-not-Stirred lager starter?
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2015, 08:41:06 PM »
twenties and early thirties.  Shaking the dickens out of a starter was just the result of being very strong.   I noticed a huge increase in performance, so I stuck with the method long enough to understand why it worked.

Just to understand your process, is this shaking with or without the yeast in the wort starter?
Yaknow, I never posed that question to S. cerevisiae.  I just assumed you put it all together and shook it.  So that's what I did.  Worked great for me.
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

S. cerevisiae

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Re: How long for a Shaken-not-Stirred lager starter?
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2015, 10:41:28 PM »
Just to understand your process, is this shaking with or without the yeast in the wort starter?

Shaking occurs after pitching.

Offline TMX

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Ferm 1: Irish Red Ale
Ferm 2:

On Deck: American Wheat

Keg 1: Un-Common
Keg 2: Switchback Stout

Total Gallons brewed (2015) - 10

Offline narcout

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Re: How long for a Shaken-not-Stirred lager starter?
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2015, 04:15:07 PM »
I don't know that I would pitch 3 liters of starter wort into a 6 gallon batch of beer.
I don't want to sound snarky but that's what the silly yeast calculators call for.  In fact they want 4 L !

What I was getting at is that I would decant and just pitch the yeast to avoid diluting the beer with too much bland tasting starter wort, not that your starter was too large.
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