[musseldoc]

Both of these grain bills come in at the same SRM (~17.5) and OG (~1.078).  Assuming I use the same yeast and an appropriate IBU with each grain bill, what flavor differences would you expect between the two variations of the same recipe?  Is one more appropriate than the other for a belgian dubbel?

Variation 1:
71.5% Belgian Pils
7% Belgian Aromatic
7% Belgian Special B
14.5% plain white sugar (sucrose)

Variation 2:
39.25% Belgian Pils
39.25% Belgian Munich
7% Belgian Special B
14.5% plain white sugar (sucrose)

[sambates]

My instinct tells me that the version with Munich malt could potentially have a more bready, malty, and melonoidin-rich flavor. It would also likely make your wort slightly less fermentable, as compared to the  recipe with the majority of pils malt. Honestly, Belgian beers are really characterized by their yeast, so that should play a very important role in how you want your final product to turn out. Good luck!

[denny]

IMO, a dubbel MUST have candi syrup.  Until I started using it, my dubbels didn't taste like dubbels.

[HoosierBrew]

IMO, a dubbel MUST have candi syrup.  Until I started using it, my dubbels didn't taste like dubbels.

^^^   I like dark syrup (like D180) and special B together.  Either recipe would be good with the dark syrup. Gotta have it IMO.

[erockrph]

IMO, a dubbel MUST have candi syrup.  Until I started using it, my dubbels didn't taste like dubbels.

^^^   I like dark syrup (like D180) and special B together.  Either recipe would be good with the dark syrup. Gotta have it IMO.

+2 - I have also used a combo of D-90 and D-180, plus Special B with good results.

I love aromatic malt, but in my dubbel I typically leave it out. I use a 50-50 mix of Belgian Pils and Belgian Pale Ale malt for my base malt. I get good malt character from it, but still get the attenuation I'm looking for in a dubbel.

[klickitat jim]

Spec B and dark candy syrup guy here

[majorvices]

IMO, a dubbel MUST have candi syrup.  Until I started using it, my dubbels didn't taste like dubbels.

Agree, they don't have to have Special B, but they do have to have candi syrup.

[denny]

IMO, a dubbel MUST have candi syrup.  Until I started using it, my dubbels didn't taste like dubbels.

^^^   I like dark syrup (like D180) and special B together.  Either recipe would be good with the dark syrup. Gotta have it IMO.

Yeah, I found that for my tastes I need both.

[musseldoc]

I guess maybe what I should ask is if 50% of a Munich base malt is too much for the style.  Too melanoidin rich?  Too bready and toasty?

[majorvices]

I guess maybe what I should ask is if 50% of a Munich base malt is too much for the style.  Too melanoidin rich?  Too bready and toasty?

I think you want to go majority of pilsner malt for the base malt. You want the beer to have an almost dry "crispness" to it.

[erockrph]

I guess maybe what I should ask is if 50% of a Munich base malt is too much for the style.  Too melanoidin rich?  Too bready and toasty?

I think you want to go majority of pilsner malt for the base malt. You want the beer to have an almost dry "crispness" to it.

I agree. A little bit of melanoidin character would probably be ok, but the breadiness might be a bit much. To me, a good dubbel is crisp and easy drinking, with the right balance of dark fruit and Belgian yeast character.

I know yeast strain hasn't come up yet, but I like WY1762 a lot for this style. WY3864 (Unibroue) is another good one for this style, and I think it is out as a limited release right now. They both have a nice plummy note that compliments the Special B and dark syrups quite well.

[HoosierBrew]

I know yeast strain hasn't come up yet, but I like WY1762 a lot for this style. WY3864 (Unibroue) is another good one for this style, and I think it is out as a limited release right now. They both have a nice plummy note that compliments the Special B and dark syrups quite well.

+1.  Both great strains.

[reverseapachemaster]

That much munich malt will make the beer taste malt-heavy which isn't what you want in this style. You want a malt platform for all those fruit and caramel flavors to distinguish themselves. Too much maltiness is going to drown some of those flavors. If you're afraid too much pilsner will make the beer too grainy or not malty enough then I'd replace the munich with pale malt  or a combination of pale and munich in which munich is at most 15% of the recipe.

I agree with what has been said above about needing to use candy syrups to obtain the classic dubbel character.

[denny]

I agree. A little bit of melanoidin character would probably be ok, but the breadiness might be a bit much. To me, a good dubbel is crisp and easy drinking, with the right balance of dark fruit and Belgian yeast character.

I know yeast strain hasn't come up yet, but I like WY1762 a lot for this style. WY3864 (Unibroue) is another good one for this style, and I think it is out as a limited release right now. They both have a nice plummy note that compliments the Special B and dark syrups quite well.

I think 1762 is great for BDSA, but for dubbel I stick with the classic 3787.

[Joe Sr.]

IMO, a dubbel MUST have candi syrup.  Until I started using it, my dubbels didn't taste like dubbels.

Back in the day, I used dark candi sugar and thought that was the trick, but the syrups are definitely indispensable.

I think 1762 is great for BDSA, but for dubbel I stick with the classic 3787.

I don't think I've ever used 3787 for a dubbel.  I might have to try it.

There are strains I would avoid for a dubbel, such as the Ardennes strain.  I know there's another but I can't think of it at the moment.

I've got one headed to NHC fermented with the Unibroue strain.  It's quite nice.