Author Topic: Pale Ales and color  (Read 968 times)

Offline flbrewer

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Pale Ales and color
« on: February 22, 2015, 11:28:21 PM »
I'm drinking this now, my first stab at all grain brewing...

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/regal-pale-ale/

This beer with many of my previous extracts have always been darker than I like as far as color goes. For the many commercial IPA and Pale Ales I drink that are very golden in color, are they not adding any crystal?

Secondly, if you looked at my recipe above, which of the ingredients outside of 2-row added any darker colors?

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Pale Ales and color
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2015, 12:00:07 AM »
This recipe shows a color rating of 8 SRM, where the BJCP color range for  APA is 5-14 SRM.  The C80 is the darkest of the malts, being pretty deep amber/reddish. It'd be easy to swap the C80 out for paler crystal (40 or 20) to get a paler beer next time.  How does it taste ? Is it good other than being darker than you wanted ?
Jon H.

Offline flbrewer

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Re: Pale Ales and color
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2015, 12:08:08 AM »
This recipe shows a color rating of 8 SRM, where the BJCP color range for  APA is 5-14 SRM.  The C80 is the darkest of the malts, being pretty deep amber/reddish. It'd be easy to swap the C80 out for paler crystal (40 or 20) to get a paler beer next time.  How does it taste ? Is it good other than being darker than you wanted ?

Ummm, it's OK. Still thinking I don't like the taste of crystal as that has been the constant in my homebrews.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Pale Ales and color
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2015, 12:15:33 AM »
Is the beer sweet, the caramel character good but too much ? I like C80 in some beers, but not in APA.  Next time try 7% C20 or C40 and see what you think. But the other question is, how is the hop character?  Are the  bitterness, hop flavor and aroma what you wanted ?
Jon H.

Offline brewday

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Re: Pale Ales and color
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2015, 12:15:55 AM »
There's ~12% crystal in that recipe, which is a lot for my taste.  The commercial beers your referencing probable have one-half to one-third of that amount.
Jon Weaver

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Pale Ales and color
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2015, 12:18:34 AM »
There's ~12% crystal in that recipe, which is a lot for my taste.  The commercial beers your referencing probable have one-half to one-third of that amount.

+1.  Too much caramel, and too many varieties of it for my tastes.
Jon H.

Offline flbrewer

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Re: Pale Ales and color
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2015, 12:27:09 AM »
There's ~12% crystal in that recipe, which is a lot for my taste.  The commercial beers your referencing probable have one-half to one-third of that amount.

+1.  Too much caramel, and too many varieties of it for my tastes.

Yeah, way to sweet. I admit I was somewhat fast at picking that recipe. I'm going to be doing that SN Pale Ale clone (another post) for a bit going forward. It only has 5% crystal 40. I'm even considering dropping that all together and adding that melanoidin that I had in a Pale Ale recently.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Pale Ales and color
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2015, 12:29:19 AM »
There's ~12% crystal in that recipe, which is a lot for my taste.  The commercial beers your referencing probable have one-half to one-third of that amount.

+1.  Too much caramel, and too many varieties of it for my tastes.

Yeah, way to sweet. I admit I was somewhat fast at picking that recipe. I'm going to be doing that SN Pale Ale clone (another post) for a bit going forward. It only has 5% crystal 40. I'm even considering dropping that all together and adding that melanoidin that I had in a Pale Ale recently.

Give carared a try. I also will use cara45 , much milder then
some of the higher crystals that can over power an APA or IPA.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Pale Ales and color
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2015, 12:31:50 AM »
After a bunch of trial and error my APA has 8% crystal 10L, the rest is 2 row and America Munich 10 L. No crystal at all in my IPA. The only reason I use it in the APA is for a bit of residual sweetness and body. (I guess thats two reasons) In other words it feels bigger than it is. But not obviously so. And to support the hoppiness. (So 3 reasons)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 12:35:26 AM by klickitat jim »

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Pale Ales and color
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2015, 12:33:43 AM »
There's ~12% crystal in that recipe, which is a lot for my taste.  The commercial beers your referencing probable have one-half to one-third of that amount.

+1.  Too much caramel, and too many varieties of it for my tastes.

Yeah, way to sweet. I admit I was somewhat fast at picking that recipe. I'm going to be doing that SN Pale Ale clone (another post) for a bit going forward. It only has 5% crystal 40. I'm even considering dropping that all together and adding that melanoidin that I had in a Pale Ale recently.

Aside from cutting back crystal, upping the hops a bit and adding some gypsum to your mash or kettle will balance the beer and bring out hop character. But that's a lot of crystal for what I like. Next time try 93% 2 row, 7% C20 or C40, along with a tsp of gypsum and I'll bet you like the results a lot better.


EDIT -  Or 75% 2 row,  20% Munich light, 5% C40. 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 12:35:46 AM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline flbrewer

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Re: Pale Ales and color
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2015, 01:05:19 AM »
There's ~12% crystal in that recipe, which is a lot for my taste.  The commercial beers your referencing probable have one-half to one-third of that amount.

+1.  Too much caramel, and too many varieties of it for my tastes.


Yeah, way to sweet. I admit I was somewhat fast at picking that recipe. I'm going to be doing that SN Pale Ale clone (another post) for a bit going forward. It only has 5% crystal 40. I'm even considering dropping that all together and adding that melanoidin that I had in a Pale Ale recently.

Aside from cutting back crystal, upping the hops a bit and adding some gypsum to your mash or kettle will balance the beer and bring out hop character. But that's a lot of crystal for what I like. Next time try 93% 2 row, 7% C20 or C40, along with a tsp of gypsum and I'll bet you like the results a lot better.


EDIT -  Or 75% 2 row,  20% Munich light, 5% C40.

About the gypsum...care to gander over at my most recent water report?

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1887.msg283137#msg283137

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Pale Ales and color
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2015, 01:14:05 AM »
I think with the high Mg levels, you're probably best off to get RO water from a grocery store machine (I do) and the tsp of gypsum would be fine. Eventually you'll want to use software like Bru'nwater to estimate pH and salt additions like gyspum, but for now the RO + tsp gypsum will work ok.
Jon H.

Offline quattlebaum

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Re: Pale Ales and color
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2015, 01:44:02 AM »
Hell one of my favorite APAs has 15% crystal in it crazy.
Recipe: Cardinal Pale Ale
Brewer: Quattlebaum
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 4.90 gal
Post Boil Volume: 3.90 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 3.25 gal   
Bottling Volume: 3.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.055 SG
Estimated Color: 6.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 31.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 84.2 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
5 lbs 6.6 oz          Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain         1        79.6 %       
8.2 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)    Grain         2        7.5 %         
8.2 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM)    Grain         3        7.5 %         
5.9 oz                Munich 10L (Briess) (10.0 SRM)           Grain         4        5.4 %         
0.40 oz               Galena [13.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           5        28.6 IBUs     
0.35 oz               Cascade [7.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  20min Hop           6        2.5 IBUs     
1.0 pkg               American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 Yeast         7        -             
1.25 oz               Cascade [7.20 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days      Hop           8        0.0 IBUs     


Mash Schedule: My Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 6 lbs 12.9 oz
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Mash In           Add 2.55 gal of water at 166.2 F        150.0 F       60 min       

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun , 3.17gal) of 175.0 F water
Notes:
------
 1056 ferm 66F Push Sulfate to 100ppm CL 30ish ppm 100%RO

Offline fmader

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Re: Pale Ales and color
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2015, 01:49:50 AM »
I'm liking 90% two row, 5% Munich, and 5% C60 for my APAs right now.

Another thread has me thinking about trying melanoidin malt in an APA.
Frank

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Pale Ales and color
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2015, 01:52:11 AM »
I think water building can be over done. I've found that it's easy to end up with a salty soapy beer by overdoing the additions. I probably over simplify too much, but this is my method. After spring runoff when my well goes back to normal, I use almost no additions.  i have trypical NW water. Maybe a dash of gypsum in a hoppy beer or a dash of CaCl in a malty beer.

This time of year I use distilled (no RO readily available). Hoppy beers get 6-8 grams gypsum, malty beers get 6-8 of CaCl. Balanced beers get a combo. Light colored get 1ml of lactic in the mash and sparge. Medium color get 1ml in the sparge. Darks get no acid. Its not scientific, but it works for me without off flavors. The one time it didn't work was in an attempt at a 3.5 abv brown beer, which turned out too acidic and I had to fix it with a touch of soda. I dont know what happened there other than I might have used lactic when I didnt need to.

Anyway, I suggest going easy on additions.