Author Topic: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!  (Read 5825 times)

Offline toby

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1021
  • Galvez, LA
    • Beer Judge Chronicles
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #60 on: March 19, 2015, 04:25:02 PM »
Just got my score. I'm pretty sure those back of the sheet pages were the main problem.

Bu tI got an 80% so I'll take that. I got Master level in Scoring accuracy, National level in perceptive accuracy and certified everywhere else. I'm pretty sure some of that certified is because I put advice for improvement on the back of the page. maybe I'll take it again later this year.

Congrats!  Just got mine with the update yesterday as well (81).  My biggest issues were apparently perception and feedback on a couple beers that really hurt me (I don't know what beer I got compared to the proctors lol).  My Completeness was Master level, and Descriptive Ability and Scoring were National, and Certified on the other two.  I'll probably bring up my concerns with the new RTP at NHC, though.  That being said, I'm not planning to re-take any time soon (will probably go for master eventually).  I'll probably schedule the written some time this summer (maybe NHC or the July quarterly before the new guidelines take effect).  I will have more than enough points for National by then assuming I do well enough on the written (I'm at 19.5 at the moment).

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9795
  • Milford, MI
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #61 on: March 19, 2015, 04:43:15 PM »
yeah I'm pretty happy. burns a little to know I would probably have done better if I read the instructions more closely but lesson learned.

Don't feel bad, NOBODY reads the instructions...everybody jumps in. For a short time the examinee was asked to initial each line that they read it, I wish we still had that.

When we gave the essay exam getting the examinees to number the pages correctly was like herding cats, all of a sudden intelligent adults became children with one of those big fat pencils and paper which tore as soon as you touched it with the lead. I'm not quite sure why that was, but eventually I made a template and gave it to every examinee. Several still got it wrong.

thanks Mike. I've got some time before I'm eligible for the written exam (I've only got 3.5 points right now) but you can be sure I'll read all the instructions carefully when I do.
Big thing with the written exam is practicing answering those questions as quickly as possible.  I got my exam, read through it, and thought "Wow I'm going to ace this thing.  I could answer these with my eyes closed."... Well that is true... but answering them in the allotted time proved to be a different thing altogether lol.

Exactly.
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline MDixon

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2096
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #62 on: March 19, 2015, 08:26:30 PM »
I'll probably bring up my concerns with the new RTP at NHC, though. 

Ask yourself how much long you are willing to wait for exam results with a different RTP. 1 month? 2 months? 3 months?

The old legacy exam took ~5 hours per exam for grading and RTP. The new taste exam takes me a little less than it took the examinees to take it to grade, reach consensus and complete the RTP. That equates to faster return times. I can write an RTP like the old one, but be prepared to wait. Would you rather have the results in a timely fashion or pages of verbiage after a very long wait. I suspect the answer would be the results.
It's not a popularity contest, it's beer!

Offline toby

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1021
  • Galvez, LA
    • Beer Judge Chronicles
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #63 on: March 19, 2015, 09:13:56 PM »
I'll probably bring up my concerns with the new RTP at NHC, though. 

Ask yourself how much long you are willing to wait for exam results with a different RTP. 1 month? 2 months? 3 months?

The old legacy exam took ~5 hours per exam for grading and RTP. The new taste exam takes me a little less than it took the examinees to take it to grade, reach consensus and complete the RTP. That equates to faster return times. I can write an RTP like the old one, but be prepared to wait. Would you rather have the results in a timely fashion or pages of verbiage after a very long wait. I suspect the answer would be the results.
I have asked myself that question, especially since my whole focus on improving my score is to be able to improve my state's judging/comp situation and expand the local pool.  If the current RTP meant a 4-6 week turnaround, I would embrace it wholeheartedly.  I could even see a 2 month turnaround being a significant improvement.  However, when I get the results with the new RTP in the same ~5.5 months (test date was 10/4/14 and results were posted 3/18/15) as the old RTP, it's a stretch to say it has accomplished much other than making it practically impossible for me to figure out where I went astray (since I don't have access to the relevant information).  I can only find out that my perceptions or scoring on a beer were way off the proctors', but I'm left to guess on where or why.

Offline MDixon

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2096
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #64 on: March 19, 2015, 10:41:02 PM »
Scoring is a crapshoot, you will never understand why. The grading documents will make it clear what your variance was however. They are in the exam section of the website.

As far the timeline for grading it sounds as if it went off the rails somewhere, perhaps someone went MIA.
It's not a popularity contest, it's beer!

Offline toby

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1021
  • Galvez, LA
    • Beer Judge Chronicles
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #65 on: March 19, 2015, 11:10:03 PM »
Scoring is a crapshoot, you will never understand why. The grading documents will make it clear what your variance was however. They are in the exam section of the website.
Yeah, my scoring was really off on one beer, but fine otherwise.  I can only assume that it was because there was literally variance between the bottles.  The admin mentioned when he was pouring into the pitcher that he could see gradations between the bottles (clear vs. cloudy).  I don't think he mixed them.  I would assume there was potentially taste/aroma difference too which killed the perception of my perception.  The other beer that really hurt me I'll never know why my perceptions were so off I suppose.  Ironically, I got master level scoring accuracy on that one, but was completely divergent on what I sensed.
Quote
As far the timeline for grading it sounds as if it went off the rails somewhere, perhaps someone went MIA.
I could see that coincidentally happening to both exams I've taken (since I know it happened in my original tasting), but it seems to be pretty common recently since if anyone asks about it, the normal response seems to be "they've been taking 5 or 6 months lately".  I suppose the catch-22 aspect of it winds up being the most frustrating.

Offline macbrews

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #66 on: March 20, 2015, 12:02:18 AM »
How do they notify you of the results - email/USPS?

I'm waiting on one from last November.

Offline MDixon

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2096
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #67 on: March 20, 2015, 12:37:33 AM »
The RTP will be uploaded to the BJCP website. Your pin will be mailed. I assume you are notified via email on your status.

I've seen as short as 8 weeks recently, but 12 weeks is more the norm. The holiday weeks in November/December shouldn't really be counted, despite the best efforts IME it is almost impossible to get any grading done during that time.

I know on a recent set it arrived to us late and we were a pinch hit grading team. We finished on time and then there was a delay in the final grading. So issues on the front end and a delay on the back end and I would guess the examinees got their results back at about 16 weeks even though the meat of the grading was finished in time.
It's not a popularity contest, it's beer!

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3555
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #68 on: March 20, 2015, 01:37:17 AM »
Just a silly thought, but I never hand right or print by hand more than a very short note, so I may start handwriting things more often over the next few months to see if my speed and clarity will improve.  I can think, talk and even type pretty quickly, but getting those thoughts reduced to a print form by hand is where I bog down....I wonder what the thought is on having the time so constrained, if the goal is to measure the accuracy of your perception and your ability to use appropriate descriptors to relate the perception to the brewer?
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline MDixon

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2096
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #69 on: March 20, 2015, 01:48:01 AM »
You are given 15 minutes per beer to fill out the score sheet. The time really isn't constrained. I can pen a score sheet and reach consensus in 10 minutes or less. 15 minutes is not rushed at all for judging a beer. Often when I proctor (the sheets are longer), I have time to hit the head between beers if needed.
It's not a popularity contest, it's beer!

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3555
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #70 on: March 20, 2015, 02:04:12 AM »
Does that include allowing enough time to see if anything changes?  In my limited experience, the warming process on one beer over a few minutes allowed for certain flaws to become more pronounced and perceptible.  I am sure that you are quite skilled and I don't mean to be critical about your process, just thinking aloud about giving adequate time to fully evaluate.  Over time, I hope to be quicker, but I hope I don't rush through the process before my capabilities allow for it.  That wouldn't be fair to the entrant in a competition setting.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline MDixon

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2096
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #71 on: March 20, 2015, 12:25:21 PM »
The goal is to evaluate a beer in 10 min or less including consensus as a BJCP judge. In reality with that goal in mind the time should be less, right? ;)

I honestly often find myself bored proctoring the exam because of the extra time. Some judges are incredibly slow, they evaluate the beers, but seem to take forever to get the words on the page. That is why, IMO, the time for evaluation is 15 minutes. I know two judges who have a difficult time writing due to health issues and they still can finish in less than 15 minutes. With practice, and you should practice before taking the exam, you should be able to finish each beer you are presented with time to spare.

As far as the beer changing, the aroma will begin to lessen in most cases making it more difficult to characterize. That is one of the reasons it is on the sheet first. The aroma and flavor may change as it warms, but a 2-4 ounce sample in your hand will warm very quickly. The key is to keep the beer in the weak hand and the pen in the writing hand and never set down the beer. You'll judge faster when you don't have to keep picking up the cup or glass.
It's not a popularity contest, it's beer!

Offline Jimmy K

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3646
  • Delaware
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #72 on: March 20, 2015, 12:46:27 PM »
How do they notify you of the results - email/USPS?

I'm waiting on one from last November.
The web server sends an automated email with your score and rank when the database is updated.
Delmarva United Homebrewers - President by inverse coup - former president ousted himself.
AHA Member since 2006
BJCP Certified: B0958

Offline Jimmy K

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3646
  • Delaware
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #73 on: March 20, 2015, 12:54:25 PM »
I'll probably bring up my concerns with the new RTP at NHC, though. 

Ask yourself how much long you are willing to wait for exam results with a different RTP. 1 month? 2 months? 3 months?
I was basically shocked when I got my last exam back, but I'd like to see something in the middle. I think a short description of how each beer was perceived by proctors/other examinees and the score. I don't think it would be too much extra work to add this because the graders must gather this information in order to grade the exam, and the information would be the same for every exam in a set. With that, I could compare it to my scanned exam sheets and decide for myself where I went wrong. As it is now, I have nothing to work with.
Delmarva United Homebrewers - President by inverse coup - former president ousted himself.
AHA Member since 2006
BJCP Certified: B0958

Offline morticaixavier

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7782
  • Underhill VT
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #74 on: March 20, 2015, 12:58:50 PM »
I could see value in at least having the proctors score sheets scanned and available. I would love to see the actual feedback but I can imagine that it would take more time.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"
-A Einstein

"errors are [...] the portals of discovery"
- J Joyce