Author Topic: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!  (Read 5822 times)

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2015, 03:15:46 AM »
80 is very good, if I get motivated to take the tasting again, I would be satisfied with that.
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Offline Philbrew

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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2015, 03:31:39 AM »
Wow, whoda thunk it would take such hard work to be able to drink really good beer.   :) : ;D
congrats!
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2015, 05:40:32 AM »
Wow really great score Herman!  I am taking the exam in June and hope to just pass. Your high score is exceptional.  Congrats, dude!
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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2015, 07:02:22 PM »
80 is very good, if I get motivated to take the tasting again, I would be satisfied with that.

I have met a lot of knowledgeable judges who have been at the Certified rank for years because they have chosen to not re-sit for the beer judging exam. 

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2015, 01:59:49 AM »
I got my Recognized pin today. Wore it around for a while but no one recognized it. I'm 1.5 points from certified, maybe I'll be famous then

I plan to stay certified until I have the points for national. At that point if I know for certain I could score high 80s and I have time to do what nationals do, I'll retest.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2015, 02:41:28 AM »
Two issues for me - not enough room in my head for all the styles to be memorized; not a young enough palate to recognize the distinctions well enough any more.  So if I pass at all it will be by a bit of luck.  I can judge the heck out of beers when I have the style guidelines in front of me, but take that away and I am like a blind librarian trying to restack books by feel.

I don't understand why the test is set up the way it is, since no (or very few) judges judge without the style guidelines sitting in front of them....but hey, I don't know it all.  They do the bar exam and doctors boards closed book, so maybe it makes sense to do it that way.  Enough of my rant! Back to my Helles.
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Offline santoch

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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2015, 02:49:38 AM »
Congrats, Jim!
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Offline dkfick

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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2015, 03:01:12 AM »
Two issues for me - not enough room in my head for all the styles to be memorized; not a young enough palate to recognize the distinctions well enough any more.  So if I pass at all it will be by a bit of luck.  I can judge the heck out of beers when I have the style guidelines in front of me, but take that away and I am like a blind librarian trying to restack books by feel.

I don't understand why the test is set up the way it is, since no (or very few) judges judge without the style guidelines sitting in front of them....but hey, I don't know it all.  They do the bar exam and doctors boards closed book, so maybe it makes sense to do it that way.  Enough of my rant! Back to my Helles.

When you're evaluating a beer the guidelines are unnecessary.  They should only be referred to when attempting to assign points but for simply writing down what you smell, see, taste, and feel in your mouth no guidelines should be used.  The issue with judges using them as they are writing down what they perceive is they suddenly start to perceive what the guidelines say instead of what their senses say.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2015, 03:11:30 AM »
I find them helpful for what is allowed in the style, but not necessarily considered to be "required", as well as those aspects that are absent, because they are supposed to be absent.  Keeping all of that in my head is the problem.  You must be pretty good to work without the style guidelines.  I suppose iit comes with time, but when entering a beer and getting dinged for a characteristic that is perfectly permissible, one wishes that the judge read the style guidelines more carefully....just sayin.  Again, I am sitting for the taste exam in June, so maybe I will come away with a different perspective, but I doubt it.  I felt the same way about the bar exam when I took it and passed.  And still feel the same way about it.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2015, 03:35:12 AM »

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2015, 03:10:34 PM »
Good job Jim.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2015, 03:27:59 PM »
Nice job, Jim.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2015, 03:29:42 PM »
Two issues for me - not enough room in my head for all the styles to be memorized; not a young enough palate to recognize the distinctions well enough any more.  So if I pass at all it will be by a bit of luck.  I can judge the heck out of beers when I have the style guidelines in front of me, but take that away and I am like a blind librarian trying to restack books by feel.

I don't understand why the test is set up the way it is, since no (or very few) judges judge without the style guidelines sitting in front of them....but hey, I don't know it all.  They do the bar exam and doctors boards closed book, so maybe it makes sense to do it that way.  Enough of my rant! Back to my Helles.

As much as it doesn't make sense to test that way, if you let people test open book then almost everybody would get a perfect score. Then you're just testing to see who will spend a few hours reviewing the guidelines and another few hours taking the test. That sets a far lower threshold to become a recognized judge. Memorization as a proxy for comprehension isn't perfect but it still sets a better standard.
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Offline toby

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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2015, 03:51:11 PM »
As much as it doesn't make sense to test that way, if you let people test open book then almost everybody would get a perfect score. Then you're just testing to see who will spend a few hours reviewing the guidelines and another few hours taking the test. That sets a far lower threshold to become a recognized judge. Memorization as a proxy for comprehension isn't perfect but it still sets a better standard.
In reality, you can become a recognized judge without knowing _anything_ in the guidelines.  When looking at the scoring guide, you can get relatively easily in the mid-60s just with the parts that are fully within your control (Descriptive Ability, Feedback and Completeness) with even mediocre results in the parts dependent on the proctors, other examinees, and style guidelines (Scoring accuracy and Perception).  Really the only part where guidelines even enter the picture is overall impression (for recipe-based feedback) and scoring.  According to graders, you will maximize your score by only mentioning style in OI.  All of AAFM should be only what you sense described as completely as you can.

I got my Recognized pin today. Wore it around for a while but no one recognized it. I'm 1.5 points from certified, maybe I'll be famous then
Doesn't help.  ;)  I skipped right over Recognized (had enough points in the 6 months it took me to get my results to be instantly Certified), and I'm not famous (that I'm aware of).  The real catch is that I need to wait for my last results before I can even think about scheduling the next step towards National (I got a 75 first time around).

Offline Jimmy K

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Re: BJCP Tasting Exam....I Passed!
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2015, 03:51:33 PM »
I find them helpful for what is allowed in the style, but not necessarily considered to be "required", as well as those aspects that are absent, because they are supposed to be absent.  Keeping all of that in my head is the problem.  You must be pretty good to work without the style guidelines.  I suppose iit comes with time, but when entering a beer and getting dinged for a characteristic that is perfectly permissible, one wishes that the judge read the style guidelines more carefully....just sayin.  Again, I am sitting for the taste exam in June, so maybe I will come away with a different perspective, but I doubt it.  I felt the same way about the bar exam when I took it and passed.  And still feel the same way about it.
They certainly are useful, but knowing the guidelines is a fairly small part of passing the new tasting exam. A passing score requires mostly accurate tasting skills, ability to describe what you perceive, and high quality brewing feedback.
 
Consider that the score is based on five areas, each worth 20% -
Perceptive Accuracy: How much does what you perceive match up to what the proctors and other examinees detected.
Descriptive Ability: How well do you describe your perceptions? Lots of adjectives, level descriptors, etc?
Feedback: Do you offer high quality brewing feedback that matches the errors you've noted.
Completeness: How complete is your scoresheet - all attributes addressed, checkboxes marked, etc.
Scoring: How does your overall score match the proctors?
 
Knowing the guidelines counts mostly with score and to an extent for feedback, but it has nothing to do with the other areas. The minimum Scoring score is 9 of 20 points, so guidelines affect 30% of your score at most. And even for feedback, if you detect diacetyl and give good recommendations to remove diacetyl. You'll probably get partial credit even if diacetyl is acceptable per style - because they want you to show that you know your stuff.
 
I'd also add that I got a 77 with a general understanding of beer styles. ie - I know what they should taste like but could not quote specific attributes. That memorization is much more important to get National scores - especially for the written exam.
 
There is also language in the draft 2014 (now 2015) guidelines that warns against getting too picky about specific style points. As Gordon Strong put it "You should be able to reward a good beer".
 
The other reality is that although many judges refer to guidelines during competition, there is no time to read them thoroughly. You must have a baseline understanding of the style going in. Even with time to read a full guideline - a judgement based solely on comparison to a written description is likely to be poor.
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