[blatz]

Pardon the dumb question, but why are so many of you recommending Carafa be added at the end or having the first runnings pass through it?  Why not add it to the mash tun along with all the other grains?

even though it may be dehusked, I've found (and had judges point it out to me as well ) that Carafa in the full mash lends a roastiness to the beer that shouldn't be there if you're trying to use it mostly for color.   adding it at the end of the mash will reduce the acrid/acidity of the Carafa addition and give you all the color and only a touch, if any of the roastiness.

JMO.

[hopfenundmalz]

Cold steep the Carafa and add the cold steep at the end of the mash.  Some just add the liquid to the boil.

Cold steeping is less efficient, and you would increase the amount of dark malt by 1.5 to 2.0, at least.  Advantage is no harsh flavors.

[denny]

And richard, the reason is to minimize the roast contributions of the grain since part of the fascination with the whole "black IPA" thing is the color of a stout/porter but minimal roast.

Then Sinamar would be the way to go.  Very dark color, no flavor, easily used.

[wpshadowens]

Well I brewed this tonight. Kept the Carafa separate and added it at the end of the mash, just before mash out. The wort was dark brown but certainly not black. If it turns out ok it'll be on tap at Club Night at the NHC so if you're going to the conference please stop by CRAFT's booth and let me know what you think.

Thanks for all of your feedback.

Bill

[pull]

Well I brewed this tonight. Kept the Carafa separate and added it at the end of the mash, just before mash out. The wort was dark brown but certainly not black. If it turns out ok it'll be on tap at Club Night at the NHC so if you're going to the conference please stop by CRAFT's booth and let me know what you think.

Thanks for all of your feedback.

Bill

For those of us who can't make the debut, please update the thread with reactions, yours and others', yeah?  Thanks!

[hopfenundmalz]

I will stop by the CRAFT both.  As said in this thread, add Sinimar if you want it darker.

[wpshadowens]

Apparently great minds thing alike! 

Tommyknocker Brewery and Pub is proud to present Hop Strike! Black Rye-IPA. This commemorative brew is made in honor of the 1st year anniversary of the passing of the Gourmet Beer Bill and Free the Hops.

Hop Strike! is a dry-hopped Black Rye-IPA built from the ground up at Tommyknocker Brewery. This beer is characterized by an intermingling of spicy citrus hops and chocolate malt creating an interesting complexity and great first impression on the nose. Hop Strike’s substantial 95 IBUs are balanced by the chocolate rye resulting in a nice depth of malt character and deep color.

Tommyknocker hand crafted Lagers and Ales are brewed with the finest ingredients, producing the freshest beer possible straight from our small brewpub in Idaho Springs, Colorado.

Appearance: Deep Brown/Black, light tan head
Malts: Idaho Pale Malt, European Crystal, Chocolate malt and Chocolate rye
Hops: Chinook, Newport, Glacier, Nugget and Summit

Dry-hopped with 40 pounds of hops, 16 deg. Plato (1.066), 95 IBUs, 45 SRM, 7% ABV

http://beernews.org/2010/05/tommyknocker-hop-strike-ipa-debuts-on-tap-this-week/

[narvin]

Damn, they beat you to it.

I'm patenting the Rye Stout Pilsner idea while I can!

[wpshadowens]

Sorry for the late follow-up to this but we had a death in the family shortly after my return from Minneapolis.

I was very satisfied with the way this beer turned out and received nothing but positive feedback from everyone who sampled it at club night. Tasty McDole commented that he thought it was well done and represented the style very well. My only regret was not having my recipe with me because Tasty asked about it and I was not in the best of shape to recall it from memory  . It couldn't have been too bad because it was one of CRAFT's most popular beers and had many repeat customers. The keg was pretty much drained. Personally I thought the roast was just about right, perceivable but not overpowering. I thought the color was spot on too. I will definitely brew this again.

Bill

[wpshadowens]

Update on this beer, it earned an honorable mention in the 1st Annual Michigan Beer Cup, formerly the Michigan State Fair Homebrew competition, with an average score of 38. 

[denny]

Congrats, Bill!  I tried your beer at club night and it was _very_ tasty!

[chumley]

Black Rye IPA.....sheesh 

As the posts in this thread suggest, the whole Black IPA thing is such nonsense....."Add sinimar to get color but no flavor"....."Add carafa to the sparge".....etc.

I bet the biggest fans of the Black IPA/Cascadian Dark Ale craze are the same ones who sneer at green beer on St. Patrick's Day.  Hey, I've got news for you....ITS THE SAME THING!

Whatever floats your boat, I suppose. Personally, if I am going to make something black, I want it to taste ROASTY.

Oh, and last week I found myself in the Bear Republic brewpub in Healdsburg, CA.....and Hop Rod Rye, while not black, is fantastic!

[denny]

Yep, HRR is great stuff.  Why, it's kinda like a darker version of my rye IPA recipe....

[chumley]

<intoning the voice of the late Paul Harvey>

AND NOW........THE REST OF THE STORY......

So, I was in my local pub the other day, and mentioned to the bartender that I just got back from vacation in Northern California and really enjoyed a beer called Hop Rod Rye.

"Coincidentally," he replied, "I have a keg of that in the cooler.  That's next on our rotator tap."

So today, I walk in the bar, and order a Hop Rod Rye.  The beer comes back.....and it is a Black IPA.

Fortunately, I had been at the Healdsburg brewpub two weeks ago, and knew exactly what was up.

"Tom, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you." I told my favorite barkeep. "This beer isn't Hop Rod Rye....it is Red Rocket Ale."

Tom went back to the cooler to check the tag on the keg.  It was a handwritten tag that said Hop Rod Rye.

So there is two important points to be learned here:

1.  Quality control ain't so good at Bear Republic.

2.  Denny Conn is never wrong (well, we all know that already, but this thread made him look somewhat fallible.  I'm glad I corrected that).

[denny]

2.  Denny Conn is never wrong (well, we all know that already, but this thread made him look somewhat fallible.  I'm glad I corrected that).

BWAHAHAHA!  Chumley, what would it cost to get that in writing to give to my wife?