Author Topic: Changes to brulosophy lager schedule  (Read 2701 times)

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Changes to brulosophy lager schedule
« on: March 05, 2015, 01:26:33 PM »
I was happy to see Marshall incorporated some feedback we provided him regarding his lager schedule. After trying his original, I came to conclusion you needed to really adapt the schedule around your beer and your specific parameters. OG, yeast, fermentation temp all play a larger role that preclude you from just using his approximate 5 day initial stage plan.

He's taken the feedback and made some further parameters and guidelines that should provide for better results.

http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/


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Offline AmandaK

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Re: Changes to brulosophy lager schedule
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2015, 01:51:51 PM »
Quote
I originally advised leaving the fermenting beer at primary temp for 5 days assuming folks were checking SG prior to making temp changes.

Oh the internet... where it's someone else's fault when you don't use common sense.  ::)  He clearly said throughout the original article that one should wait until the beer was 50% attenuated before increasing the temperature. Not checking this prior to changing the temperature is akin to racking to a secondary on "day 5" because the instructions in the kit said to.

Quote
This was a mistake on my part.

I don't believe he made any mistake. Too many people read a small portion of the information and then don't think about what it actually means. 5 days for him can and will be different for any number of reasons, OG being only one of them.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Changes to brulosophy lager schedule
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2015, 02:05:07 PM »
Quote
I originally advised leaving the fermenting beer at primary temp for 5 days assuming folks were checking SG prior to making temp changes.

Oh the internet... where it's someone else's fault when you don't use common sense.  ::)  He clearly said throughout the original article that one should wait until the beer was 50% attenuated before increasing the temperature. Not checking this prior to changing the temperature is akin to racking to a secondary on "day 5" because the instructions in the kit said to.

Quote
This was a mistake on my part.

I don't believe he made any mistake. Too many people read a small portion of the information and then don't think about what it actually means. 5 days for him can and will be different for any number of reasons, OG being only one of them.

you know how that goes though-literal reading leads to literal practices for some.  still think its good he clarified for those reason.

EDIT: FWIW, i think the "at least 50% attenuation" is not optimal. I saw increase in diacetyl production where normally I wouldn't have detected it. ive adapted to at least 60% ADT and find that's working best for me.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 02:10:17 PM by Wort-H.O.G. »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline AmandaK

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Re: Changes to brulosophy lager schedule
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2015, 02:06:45 PM »
FWIW, this isn't "his" method either. I believe it was first mentioned via Tasty McDole, and many other bloggers have posted about it in years past, some of which are AHA Forum members.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Changes to brulosophy lager schedule
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2015, 02:11:16 PM »
FWIW, this isn't "his" method either. I believe it was first mentioned via Tasty McDole, and many other bloggers have posted about it in years past, some of which are AHA Forum members.

im not going to debate who started it-im sure you're correct. he's definitely promoting it and any adaptions or changes to it.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
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Dort
Mead                 
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Ger'merican Blonde
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Changes to brulosophy lager schedule
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2015, 03:15:14 PM »
FWIW, this isn't "his" method either. I believe it was first mentioned via Tasty McDole, and many other bloggers have posted about it in years past, some of which are AHA Forum members.

Noonan talked of a profile like this, and he passed away some time ago.

From Kai's page. Scroll down until you see 6 graphs of time-temperature.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers

F - Is a fermentation schedule that uses an explicit maturation rest at a higher temperature: also known as diacetyl rest. This schedule resembles best what authors like Noonan and Palmer suggest for a proper lager fermentation: Pitch cold, let it ferment around 50 °F (10 °C) and once the fermentation slowed down significantly and the gravity of the beer is close to its final gravity, raise the beers temperature to 65 - 68 °F (17-19 °C) for a diacetyl rest. This diacetyl rest has the effect of giving the slowing yeast a boost to finish the last sugars and reduce the diacetyl. As the previous examples for fermentation schedules showed, such a rest is not really necessary. But it can be helpful when the used yeast shows a very sluggish fermentation performance and has a hard time reaching the targeted final gravity when kept at fermentation temperatures. After this rest is complete the beer can be crashed to lagering temperatures.
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: Changes to brulosophy lager schedule
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2015, 03:17:11 PM »
I knew I heard it before Tasty! I couldn't remember though.

Is that in Noonan's book by chance?
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Changes to brulosophy lager schedule
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2015, 03:27:15 PM »
I knew I heard it before Tasty! I couldn't remember though.

Is that in Noonan's book by chance?
I think so, and he was quoting Herr Professor Dr. Narziss.

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dfhar

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Re: Changes to brulosophy lager schedule
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2015, 04:19:07 PM »
Yes, IIRC the accelerated lager schedule originated in Germany some time ago.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Changes to brulosophy lager schedule
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2015, 04:20:28 PM »
FWIW, this isn't "his" method either. I believe it was first mentioned via Tasty McDole, and many other bloggers have posted about it in years past, some of which are AHA Forum members.

Noonan talked of a profile like this, and he passed away some time ago.

From Kai's page. Scroll down until you see 6 graphs of time-temperature.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers

F - Is a fermentation schedule that uses an explicit maturation rest at a higher temperature: also known as diacetyl rest. This schedule resembles best what authors like Noonan and Palmer suggest for a proper lager fermentation: Pitch cold, let it ferment around 50 °F (10 °C) and once the fermentation slowed down significantly and the gravity of the beer is close to its final gravity, raise the beers temperature to 65 - 68 °F (17-19 °C) for a diacetyl rest. This diacetyl rest has the effect of giving the slowing yeast a boost to finish the last sugars and reduce the diacetyl. As the previous examples for fermentation schedules showed, such a rest is not really necessary. But it can be helpful when the used yeast shows a very sluggish fermentation performance and has a hard time reaching the targeted final gravity when kept at fermentation temperatures. After this rest is complete the beer can be crashed to lagering temperatures.

besides a big starter, pitching at 46F and keeping it fermenting around 47-49F until 60-65% ADT, then letting it rise to about 62F and letting it rest until about day 14, followed by a cold crash a lager for another 1-2 weeks is working fantastic for me. While i've not perceived any diacetyl before the ramp up, I still do it to finish and scub as general clean up.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
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dfhar

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Re: Changes to brulosophy lager schedule
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2015, 04:27:19 PM »
That's almost exactly schedule I've been using as well, with great results.

I chill my wort down to about 65 (I can't get much lower with my tap water and an IC), fill my fermenter and then leave it in my chest freezer set to 45 overnight. The following morning, I oxygenate with 90 seconds of pure O2 through a 0.5 micron stone at 1L/min flow rate, pitch my decanted yeast starter, attach the regulator probe inside a little insulated bubble wrap pocket on the side of my fermenter, and set it to 50 degrees.

WIth an OG of around 1.050 and a target FG around 1.012, the beer is typically at 1.020 after about a week. At this point, I set my regulator to 65 and let the beer warm up on its own to finish up for another week. Finally, I remove the regulator from the side of the fermenter so it measures the ambient air temperature, set it to 34 degrees F, and let the beer sit another week before kegging.

After a week in the keg, the beer is fully carbed and already pretty darn clear, especially if I added some gelatin before racking to the keg. In my experience, though, the beer doesn't hit peak flavor until it's been in the keg for at least 2-3 weeks, at which point it's pretty bright as well.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 04:30:49 PM by dfhar »

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Changes to brulosophy lager schedule
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2015, 04:33:01 PM »
That's almost exactly schedule I've been using as well, with great results.

I chill my wort down to about 65 (I can't get much lower with my tap water and an IC), fill my fermenter and then leave it in my chest freezer set to 45 overnight. The following morning, I oxygenate with 90 seconds of pure O2 through a 0.5 micron stone at 1L/min flow rate, pitch my decanted yeast starter, attach the regulator probe inside a little insulated bubble wrap pocket on the side of my fermenter, and set it to 50 degrees.

WIth an OG of around 1.050 and a target FG around 1.012, the beer is typically at 1.020 after about a week. At this point, I set my regulator to 65 and let the beer warm up on its own to finish up for another week. Finally, I remove the regulator from the side of the fermenter so it measures the ambient air temperature, set it to 34 degrees F, and let the beer sit another week before kegging.

After a week in the keg, the beer is fully carbed and already pretty darn clear, especially if I added some gelatin before racking to the keg. In my experience, though, the beer doesn't hit peak flavor until it's been in the keg for at least 2-3 weeks, at which point it's pretty bright as well.

+1 well technically its ready to drink, I'm generally in now hurry and like to let it continue to cold condition. My helles bock goes to cold crash on friday at day 14, and i wont be tapping it until May.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

dfhar

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Re: Changes to brulosophy lager schedule
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2015, 06:26:42 PM »
For higher gravity beers like helles bock, I agree that longer conditioning is beneficial. For a 1.050 helles or pilsner, I think 4-6 weeks is sufficient (i.e. a week of lagering in the fermenter plus another 3 in the keg)

rabeb25

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Re: Changes to brulosophy lager schedule
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2015, 02:56:30 PM »
I will show you my log of a Bock I just made with an og of 1.065 Fg 1.013(830 yeast). Brewed on Feb 8th, as of 2/26 it is on tap and drinking. If you look at the graph, ferment temp was 52f, and by day 4 the beer was ready for the D-rest(you can see the fridge settings start to get closer to ferment temp). Does the beer have the subtle nuances that it will get with 6-7 weeks of lagering right now, NO. Am I basically the only one around my area that can pick those up, yes. Healty yeast + pure O2 does wonders. I have been doing a schedule like this since about 06, it works for me!