Author Topic: getting back into all grain  (Read 894 times)

Offline DW

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getting back into all grain
« on: March 08, 2015, 05:38:13 PM »
I haven't all grain brewed in a while, and i'm looking at getting back into it.  i need some help.  i want to brew the recipe listed as, "Shreddin Red IPA".  I have a 10 gallon Rubbermaid cooler as a mash tun with a homemade copper manifold.  i'd be batch sparging. 
Recipe:
For 5 Gallons (18.93 L)
7.0 lb (3.18 kg) two row malt
3.0 lb (1.36 kg) Vienna malt
12.0 oz (340 g) CaraMunich II malt
8.0 oz (226 g) 60° crystal malt
1.5 oz (42 g) dehusked black malt

1. How much water would you add initially for the 45min mash?
2. my water profile is: (what would you add to get proper pH?)
 pH 7.7
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 49
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.08 Cations / Anions, me/L 0.8 / 0.7 ppm
Sodium, Na 13
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, Ca 3
Magnesium, Mg 1
Total Hardness, CaCO3 12
Nitrate, NO3-N < 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S < 1
Chloride, Cl 7
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 29
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 23
[/size]

3. would you add rice hulls to avoid stuck sparge?
Thanks!

Offline bassetman

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Re: getting back into all grain
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2015, 06:05:55 PM »
Somewhere around 3.5-4 gallons of water and I do think you need worry about the rice hulls. More experienced folks can recommend water additions.
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Offline denny

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Re: getting back into all grain
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2015, 06:11:45 PM »
1. 1.65 qt./lb.  Round up to the nearest easily measurable increment

2.  You could do it the easy way and just add a couple tsp. of gypsum.  I did that for years and made award winning beers.  If you want to get detailed, get Bru'nwater, plug in your report and go from there.

3. nope
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Offline DW

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Re: getting back into all grain
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2015, 06:14:29 PM »
1. 1.65 qt./lb.  Round up to the nearest easily measurable increment

2.  You could do it the easy way and just add a couple tsp. of gypsum.  I did that for years and made award winning beers.  If you want to get detailed, get Bru'nwater, plug in your report and go from there.

3. nope
after adding gypsum, would you check the pH, or just assume it's ok?  You check the pH after adding the water to the grains?

Offline denny

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Re: getting back into all grain
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2015, 06:19:36 PM »
1. 1.65 qt./lb.  Round up to the nearest easily measurable increment

2.  You could do it the easy way and just add a couple tsp. of gypsum.  I did that for years and made award winning beers.  If you want to get detailed, get Bru'nwater, plug in your report and go from there.

3. nope
after adding gypsum, would you check the pH, or just assume it's ok?  You check the pH after adding the water to the grains?

I wouldn't bother checking.  Your pH is not too high to start with and the grain will pull it down.  Do you have a pH meter to check with anyway?  FWIW, I made killer IPAs for over 10 years without ever worrying about pH.  I wouldn't worry about it too much on your case.  The other option is to go all out and use Bru'nwater to calculate your additons and a meter to make sure they're correct.  since I started doing that, my beers are maybe 5% better.  If you;re just gettong back into AG, I'd say you have better things to spend your time worrying about.  Deal with water later.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: getting back into all grain
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2015, 07:12:10 PM »
1. 1.65 qt./lb.  Round up to the nearest easily measurable increment

2.  You could do it the easy way and just add a couple tsp. of gypsum.  I did that for years and made award winning beers.  If you want to get detailed, get Bru'nwater, plug in your report and go from there.

3. nope
after adding gypsum, would you check the pH, or just assume it's ok?  You check the pH after adding the water to the grains?

I wouldn't bother checking.  Your pH is not too high to start with and the grain will pull it down.  Do you have a pH meter to check with anyway?  FWIW, I made killer IPAs for over 10 years without ever worrying about pH.  I wouldn't worry about it too much on your case.  The other option is to go all out and use Bru'nwater to calculate your additons and a meter to make sure they're correct.  since I started doing that, my beers are maybe 5% better.  If you;re just gettong back into AG, I'd say you have better things to spend your time worrying about.  Deal with water later.

^^^^  All of this.  That was my experience too. 
Jon H.

Offline DW

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Re: getting back into all grain
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2015, 05:24:14 PM »
1. 1.65 qt./lb.  Round up to the nearest easily measurable increment

2.  You could do it the easy way and just add a couple tsp. of gypsum.  I did that for years and made award winning beers.  If you want to get detailed, get Bru'nwater, plug in your report and go from there.

3. nope
after adding gypsum, would you check the pH, or just assume it's ok?  You check the pH after adding the water to the grains?

I wouldn't bother checking.  Your pH is not too high to start with and the grain will pull it down.  Do you have a pH meter to check with anyway?  FWIW, I made killer IPAs for over 10 years without ever worrying about pH.  I wouldn't worry about it too much on your case.  The other option is to go all out and use Bru'nwater to calculate your additons and a meter to make sure they're correct.  since I started doing that, my beers are maybe 5% better.  If you;re just gettong back into AG, I'd say you have better things to spend your time worrying about.  Deal with water later.

1.  Do you expect the efficiency to be affected much?  I was just wondering if really soft water would not give the enzymes enough of what they need to convert that mash? 

2.  If you want the mash temperature to be 150, would you heat the strike water 10-15 degrees above that? 

3.  If you collect say, 6.5gallons (intending to make a 5 gallon batch), and the starting gravity is lower than expected, how to correct with DME?  Let's say you expect the OG to be 1.04, and it's 1.035, how much DME would you put in? 

4.  I was gonna sodder my copper manifold together, is the sodder safe to come in contact with the wort?

5.  Y'all are great!  Thanks for the help.

Offline denny

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Re: getting back into all grain
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2015, 05:41:38 PM »

1.  Do you expect the efficiency to be affected much?  I was just wondering if really soft water would not give the enzymes enough of what they need to convert that mash? 

2.  If you want the mash temperature to be 150, would you heat the strike water 10-15 degrees above that? 

3.  If you collect say, 6.5gallons (intending to make a 5 gallon batch), and the starting gravity is lower than expected, how to correct with DME?  Let's say you expect the OG to be 1.04, and it's 1.035, how much DME would you put in? 

4.  I was gonna sodder my copper manifold together, is the sodder safe to come in contact with the wort?

5.  Y'all are great!  Thanks for the help.

1. nope, not much, especially if you add a tsp. or 2 of gypsum.  Your water isn't vastly different than mine and I got award winning results with it.  Like I said, I feel my beers have improved some since I started paying more attention to water, but that doesn't mean there were problems before that.

2. Yep, that's what works for my system.  Yours might vary slightly, but that's a good starting point.  Take careful notes and adjust next time if needed.

3.  For every lb. of DME you add to 5 gal., you add about 9 gravity points (DME= 45 points/lb./gal.)

4.  I wouldn't use lead based solder.  For that matter, a lot of people simply press fit the manifold together so they can take it apart to clean it.  Of course, IMO, the ultimate lautering system is SS braid.

5. de nada
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline DW

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Re: getting back into all grain
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2015, 06:17:03 PM »


1. nope, not much, especially if you add a tsp. or 2 of gypsum.  Your water isn't vastly different than mine and I got award winning results with it.  Like I said, I feel my beers have improved some since I started paying more attention to water, but that doesn't mean there were problems before that.

2. Yep, that's what works for my system.  Yours might vary slightly, but that's a good starting point.  Take careful notes and adjust next time if needed.

3.  For every lb. of DME you add to 5 gal., you add about 9 gravity points (DME= 45 points/lb./gal.)

4.  I wouldn't use lead based solder.  For that matter, a lot of people simply press fit the manifold together so they can take it apart to clean it.  Of course, IMO, the ultimate lautering system is SS braid.

5. de nada
[/quote]

3.  So in the case, to get from 1.035 to 1.04, I'd need 5 gravity points?  So 45/6.5gallons x Xlbs =5points, which is about 0.7lbs?  Is that right?

Offline denny

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Re: getting back into all grain
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2015, 06:49:32 PM »
3.  So in the case, to get from 1.035 to 1.04, I'd need 5 gravity points?  So 45/6.5gallons x Xlbs =5points, which is about 0.7lbs?  Is that right?

Figure it based on your final volume, not your boil volume.  If you have 6.5 gal. at 1.035, you have 227.5 gravity points (6.5*35).  For a 5 gal. finished volume, that means an OG of about 1.045 (227/5).  If you wanted to hit 1.054, you'd add a lb. of DME, which in 5 gal. would add 9 points.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline DW

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Re: getting back into all grain
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2015, 12:47:12 PM »
So, finally gonna do an all grain batch tomorrow:

Belgian Pale Ale
11.2lb belgian pilsner, 0.75lb caramunich, 0.25lb biscuit--kent goldings hops, ardennes yeast

1.  Took one Wyeast activator and put in 1,400mL of 1.40 wort on stir plate---recipe calls for 2 packets, did I make enough yeast?
2.  at 1.65qt/lb I would use 20.13 (round to 20) quarts = 5 gallons strike water?
3.  I am aiming for a mash temp of 152, so I would heat my water to around 165?  (preheat mash tun with some boiled water for 10minutes?) (how much wort would you expect to run off from the 5gallons?)
4.  adjust temp with boiled/iced water
5.  Per Denny: consider 1-2g of gypsum since I have soft water
6.  Let it sit for 60 minutes at the desired temp (any reason to check to see that all the grain is converted? if so, how do you do that? )
7.  Drain all of the wort out into boil kettle then wash grains with around 4gallons of water at around 165 and collect as much as needed---pray that the gravity is right
8.  I'm planning to use hops that are 6+ months old. They have been sealed and sitting in a freezer at around 34degrees.  Is it ok to use them being that old? They're unopened.  Did not want to pay more if they were still ok. Do I need to use more hops than the recipe calls for?

I really appreciate the help on this forum!  I have a lot of questions here---- :D

Offline sprider1

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Re: getting back into all grain
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2015, 08:44:43 PM »
What i use is  a  thick   ratio--I  always use  one quart    of  liquor  per pound  of  grain.  If  graim temp is moderate,I   have a  18 degree  drop  in   temp  after doughing  in. IE   I  strike with  170  water I   get  152 mash  temp. I  would  not  waste the money  on the rice hulls  unless  I was  brewing a   beer  high in  wheat  .

Offline sprider1

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Re: getting back into all grain
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2015, 08:48:07 PM »
p.s. Unless its  a  straw  color  beer,I would  add gyp.  I have a ph meter, and  before that strips. BUT,I generally  just  use 5.2  on  straw  color beers  and  nothing   on  any thing   else.--Unless you are  emulating a  beer  then you wil have  to break the meter  out  etc etc etc.

Offline denny

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Re: getting back into all grain
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2015, 08:50:37 PM »
p.s. Unless its  a  straw  color  beer,I would  add gyp.  I have a ph meter, and  before that strips. BUT,I generally  just  use 5.2  on  straw  color beers  and  nothing   on  any thing   else.--Unless you are  emulating a  beer  then you wil have  to break the meter  out  etc etc etc.

My experience is that my beer got much better when I stopped using 5.2
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline santoch

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Re: getting back into all grain
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2015, 11:28:16 PM »
That water profile looks a lot like mine (I'm in the foothills of the Cascade Mtns, east of Seattle).

For a 5 gallon batch of IPA, I just add a tablespoon of gypsum into the HLT (then draw the mash water from that) and the sulfate helps the hops to really pop.
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