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Author Topic: Gelatin Fining  (Read 8742 times)

Offline hangdog10

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2015, 07:46:24 am »
I've read that this also helps to reduce lagering time. Is this true?

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2015, 08:06:22 am »
I've read that this also helps to reduce lagering time. Is this true?

Fining your lager can definitely help it clear a bit quicker, but it's no substitute for being sure the yeast has had time to clean up diacetyl and other off flavors/aromas.  After D-rest I crash the fermenter at ~ 30F for a couple days, then rack onto gelatin or Biofine in the keg, and lager until the beer tastes like I want. It'll clear pretty quickly this way.
Jon H.

Offline hangdog10

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2015, 09:48:26 am »
Thanks Jon,
I'm at the end of week 2 of fermenting and day 4 of the D-rest. My final gravity is pretty close to where it should be. Will check again tonight then crash it if all looks good. Probably fine it in a week after that. My first Vienna, so I'm hoping that it turns out.

Thanks for the tips.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2015, 11:13:08 am »
Since "we're not making jello" i assume the only reason for the high temp is to aid in dissolving the gelatin, correct?

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2015, 12:42:41 pm »
Since "we're not making jello" i assume the only reason for the high temp is to aid in dissolving the gelatin, correct?

The gelatin dissolves easily doing the Bertus thing. I don't know, different methods I guess. I never wanted to let it boil because I'd heard stories of brewers getting little 'Jello' chunks in the first pint or two - didn't want to chance having Jello floaties. You don't get that the way I do it because the gelatin doesn't congeal since it doesn't boil. The brewers here that boil don't talk a lot about floaties so it must not be that common.
Jon H.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2015, 03:10:17 pm »
Here's my helles bock just transferred from carboy to keg after 3 weeks. Pretty clear already. Added gelatin to keg so should be a brilliant beer when tapped.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2015, 03:28:24 pm »
Here's my helles bock just transferred from carboy to keg after 3 weeks. Pretty clear already. Added gelatin to keg so should be a brilliant beer when tapped.


Man, love some helles bock.
Jon H.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2015, 03:33:54 pm »
Here's my helles bock just transferred from carboy to keg after 3 weeks. Pretty clear already. Added gelatin to keg so should be a brilliant beer when tapped.


Man, love some helles bock.

its beers like th's that make me want to step up the batch size to 10+ gals  ;D
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline Hooper

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2015, 07:50:17 pm »
I take the beer from the hydrometer jar...about 8 oz...mix in 1 tsp of gelatin...heat to 150....dump into the just kegged brew warm...kegerate...pull half a glass of trubby...a week later...clear carbed brews.... 
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Offline TMX

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2015, 08:38:11 pm »
Since "we're not making jello" i assume the only reason for the high temp is to aid in dissolving the gelatin, correct?

this is correct, best way it was ever described to me is that you want the jello to get "sticky" you do that by heating it.
If you boil it, then it will "set" just like jello is supposed to do
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Offline euge

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2015, 04:35:14 pm »
This is serendipitous as I was planning on fining in the fermenter for the first time: questions were in order.

Thanks guys for a concise take on the techniques.

My thinking is that the hot gelatin solution in necessary in order to spread (it) out over the entire surface of the beer, cool, then drop thus sweeping the haze, particles and yeast along with it. But my grasp is loose on this sort of fining and not sure if +/- attraction is relevant as well.

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Offline jeffy

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2015, 06:42:03 pm »
This is serendipitous as I was planning on fining in the fermenter for the first time: questions were in order.

Thanks guys for a concise take on the techniques.

My thinking is that the hot gelatin solution in necessary in order to spread (it) out over the entire surface of the beer, cool, then drop thus sweeping the haze, particles and yeast along with it. But my grasp is loose on this sort of fining and not sure if +/- attraction is relevant as well.
Welcome back, euge.  Your understanding is similar to mine.
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Offline flbrewer

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2015, 06:52:00 pm »
Side question, I'm wondering how much crystal malts contribute to clarity. I brewed my first non-crystal beer (2-row, rye, melanoidin) and it is very very clear with just my normal Whirlfloc.

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2015, 08:19:30 pm »
This is serendipitous as I was planning on fining in the fermenter for the first time: questions were in order.

Thanks guys for a concise take on the techniques.

My thinking is that the hot gelatin solution in necessary in order to spread (it) out over the entire surface of the beer, cool, then drop thus sweeping the haze, particles and yeast along with it. But my grasp is loose on this sort of fining and not sure if +/- attraction is relevant as well.

I hope it's OK to copy and paste a post by someone on another website.  This is from "Don" posting on the Brulosophy website exbeeriment on gelatin fining.  Most interesting.

Gelatin is a shorter polymer of collagen, which is found in the tissues and provides strength and elasticity to those tissues i.e. skin and bones. The structure of collagen consists of 3 collagen fibers bundled together in a helix similar to what DNA looks like but instead of 2 strands we have 3 fibers making a helical structure.

As with all proteins, collagen is a long chain of amino acids. Each respective amino acid has various physical properties: non-polar, polar, or charged (- , +). Collagen is long chains of very specific repeating amino acids glycine – X – Y where X is usually proline and Y is hydroxyproline the Y position. When these long chains of repeating amino acids are shortened they form gelatin. Essentially, it’s just shorter chains of these repeating amino acids (http://www.gelatin.co.za/gltn1.html).

Now the physical properties of these amino acids are either hydrophobic (dislikes water) or hydrophilic (likes water). When you put these into solution (primary fermentor) they are going to want to bond with components of the solution to make them “happy.” So the end of the amino acid chain that likes water will bind to solutes (stuff in water) in the solution and form a physical bond with it. Same with the ends of the chain that dislike water, it will bind to solutes that dislike water and form a physical bond with it. This causes the gelatin to gelatinize in the solution (primary fermentor in the ExBEERiment) and rid the solution of particles that would otherwise cause “hazy” beer, which you hate so much.

It would be a fun experiment to measure the concentration of particles in your beer based on how much light bends as it’s exposed to your beer to determine it’s true clarity based on those measurements through the application of the equation we know as “Beer’s Law.”

Source: BS in molecular biology, biology graduate student, and teaching assistant for structural biochemistry course.

I heard you say “Are you a gelatin scientist who can shed some light on this interesting subject” and thought I’d run with it
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 09:03:14 pm by Philbrew »
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Offline euge

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Re: Gelatin Fining
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2015, 12:15:59 pm »
Take a cup of beer from the keg, stir in a package of unflavored Knox gelatin and let it bloom for a minute.  Put this is the microwave until it hits about 160F, but no hotter than 180F.  Pour this onto the cold beer and quickly shut the bale in case it starts to foam up.  You can do the same thing with the beer in the fermenter, but it works best when the beer is cold.

Thanks jeffy! I'm reading this as an already carbonated keg right?
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