Author Topic: Newbie Judge Luck  (Read 685 times)

Offline ynotbrusum

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Newbie Judge Luck
« on: March 14, 2015, 11:45:16 AM »
Talk about luck of the draw...I was paired with a Grand Master Level 2 judge for my first time judging.  I was surprised when the difference in our first 3 beers was a total of only 5 points combined.  In the whole flight we only disagreed on one beer and that was easily compromised, when I heard his rationale - which was that he would rather advance a weak beer that was to style without major flaws than a beer that had one "more significant" flaw.  A great experience.  I look forward to more judging with mentors like that - but man was he quick!
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline santoch

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Re: Newbie Judge Luck
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2015, 10:37:25 PM »
Sounds like you had a great first experience - there are only about 25 GM2+ judges on the planet.  I'm sure you learned a lot from him.

I hope that you will consider studying for the exam and getting your certification. It really is a lot of fun and it helped me to become a better homebrewer, too. We certainly need all the qualified judges we can get. 

Steve

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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Newbie Judge Luck
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2015, 04:01:09 PM »
Yes, for sure - I am in a taste test class offered by my club with a June sitting - I passed the online exam a few weeks ago.  My second day was with experienced judges of certified level and they had great interaction, too. It seems the key is to develop your own system and process and learn to apply the right descriptors.  My biggest surprise was that consensus on score range came pretty readily.  I think there were only two times through three panels that there was need for movement of any scores to get within 5 points of the other judges and it was my moving down some based on detected flaws (that we all detected, but I had not discounted enough for on the score in their opinion, so I readily capitulated.)

I gained confidence through the process, so hopefully I will continue to improve.
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Offline Jimmy K

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Re: Newbie Judge Luck
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 04:28:12 PM »
I think scoring is one of the easiest parts to get right. Most people who've drank a lot of beer (thoughtfully) can decide if a beer is fair, good, very good, excellent, etc and come up with a reasonable score in that range. It's the descriptions and feedback that are difficult. I always think of this when people complain about scoresheets. The comments and analysis may have missed the mark, but I think chances are good the overall score is probably accurate.
 
Not that there aren't exceptions, of course.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Newbie Judge Luck
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 08:25:50 PM »
I think complaints are legitimate 100% of the time when the judge was obviously rude. If everything on the score sheet was perfectly accurate, but in overall it says "Quit brewing, your beer sucks!" then that judge should quit. *

Lack of completeness is a common complaint too, and legit if the judge didn't say anything, or very little. But sometimes its a checklist scoresheet because its a huge competition. One comment on each factor ought to suffice, along with some corrective suggestion on how to score better. I don't think its reasonable to expect a full brewing lesson.

In my opinion, entrants don't have a legit complaint if they just disagree with the judge's perceptions and scoring.

* I'd like to see a method for curtailing rudeness. If a competition gets a rudeness complaint it should be reviewed by the BJCP to determine if its legit, and then take appropriate corrective action, such as a warning followed by demotion or suspension followed be revoking credentials. A lot of people put in a lot of work just to have it destroyed by some ignorant or power hungry volunteer. Its rare I suppose, but it only takes one... rant over.

Offline denny

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Re: Newbie Judge Luck
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 08:42:10 PM »
I think complaints are legitimate 100% of the time when the judge was obviously rude. If everything on the score sheet was perfectly accurate, but in overall it says "Quit brewing, your beer sucks!" then that judge should quit. *

Lack of completeness is a common complaint too, and legit if the judge didn't say anything, or very little. But sometimes its a checklist scoresheet because its a huge competition. One comment on each factor ought to suffice, along with some corrective suggestion on how to score better. I don't think its reasonable to expect a full brewing lesson.

In my opinion, entrants don't have a legit complaint if they just disagree with the judge's perceptions and scoring.

* I'd like to see a method for curtailing rudeness. If a competition gets a rudeness complaint it should be reviewed by the BJCP to determine if its legit, and then take appropriate corrective action, such as a warning followed by demotion or suspension followed be revoking credentials. A lot of people put in a lot of work just to have it destroyed by some ignorant or power hungry volunteer. Its rare I suppose, but it only takes one... rant over.

A friend I was judging with once threatened to write "Damn you, I wanted to have kids someday!".  Obviously he didn't, but man, what a temptation!
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: Newbie Judge Luck
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 09:01:38 PM »
Talk about luck of the draw...I was paired with a Grand Master Level 2 judge for my first time judging. 

Small world - my first time judging was also with a GM2! Granted, he was my tutor for the legacy exam and we had planned judge together for my first go at it... but still!  ;D

I'm glad you had a great experience and look forward to seeing your progress through the BJCP.
Amanda Burkemper
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Newbie Judge Luck
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2015, 09:08:58 PM »
I think complaints are legitimate 100% of the time when the judge was obviously rude. If everything on the score sheet was perfectly accurate, but in overall it says "Quit brewing, your beer sucks!" then that judge should quit. *

Lack of completeness is a common complaint too, and legit if the judge didn't say anything, or very little. But sometimes its a checklist scoresheet because its a huge competition. One comment on each factor ought to suffice, along with some corrective suggestion on how to score better. I don't think its reasonable to expect a full brewing lesson.

In my opinion, entrants don't have a legit complaint if they just disagree with the judge's perceptions and scoring.

* I'd like to see a method for curtailing rudeness. If a competition gets a rudeness complaint it should be reviewed by the BJCP to determine if its legit, and then take appropriate corrective action, such as a warning followed by demotion or suspension followed be revoking credentials. A lot of people put in a lot of work just to have it destroyed by some ignorant or power hungry volunteer. Its rare I suppose, but it only takes one... rant over.

A friend I was judging with once threatened to write "Damn you, I wanted to have kids someday!".  Obviously he didn't, but man, what a temptation!
Ya, but that could be taken two ways LOL.

We should all practice the compliment sandwich method. "You seem like a nice guy - Your beer reminds me of trenchfoot - Good job keeping it mostly liquid!"

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Newbie Judge Luck
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2015, 01:55:36 AM »
That is funny, Jim!

On a serious note, for me at least, the really good to great beers are harder to say a lot about, except describing what is properly not there and what is good/great about it that is present.  The weaker entries are easy to call out the faults and make suggestions (which the newer brewer likely will welcome - or at least should.). Having a short debate with a GM2 about whether the lightest hint of smokiness on a scottish 80/_ was from lightly scorching a kettle caramelization or was a result of a nice combination of yeast byproduct with a peaty note which works in the style...we compromised.  The other two categories were much less eventful, but quite worthwhile and by the end I learned a lot from each of the judges with whom I interacted.

I had a great time and look forward to the next event.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline AmandaK

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Re: Newbie Judge Luck
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2015, 02:47:18 AM »
When you have to nit pick over something like that, you know it was a good flight. :)
Amanda Burkemper
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Newbie Judge Luck
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2015, 11:36:45 AM »
Indeed, Amanda!  It's all good.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline dsmitch19

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Re: Newbie Judge Luck
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2015, 07:23:43 PM »
My first time judging was with a national judge, and I was pretty intimidated then as someone whose first experience with the style guidelines or a score sheet was the day before I showed up. It was a great experience, and obviously helped perk my interested in judging. Hopefully, you'll be in the opposite shoes one day as an experienced judge mentoring a newbie. :)
Cheers!
Dennis Mitchell
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Newbie Judge Luck
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2015, 03:24:10 AM »
So right, Dennis.  We must be mindful of the where we come from and where we aspire to go some day.  I really tried to give constructive input to the lower scored beers.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"