Author Topic: Liquid vs dry yeast?  (Read 2647 times)

Offline rjharper

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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2015, 01:40:04 PM »
Dry yeasts are getting better.  Just saying.  I used Abbaye yeast for a golden strong and it was very good.  Yes I love liquid yeasts and do starters, but there are some dry yeasts that are perfectly fine.

I'd not seen many good reviews of that strain, so that's encouraging.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2015, 02:06:16 PM »
For a neutral yeast, espcially for American ales, you can use dry US-05 interchangeably with WLP001 or WY1056. Similarly for neutral German lagers, W-34/70 is the same strain as WLP800 and WY2001.

For European ales though (English, Belgian, German, Flemish etc) I think there's a lot more variety to be had with the range of liquid options.

The 34/70 is usually said to be the WLP-830 and Wyeast-2124. It is the most widely used lager yeast since it was the one that Ludwig Narziss taught his students at Weihenstephan brewing school.
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Offline rjharper

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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2015, 02:36:37 PM »
For a neutral yeast, espcially for American ales, you can use dry US-05 interchangeably with WLP001 or WY1056. Similarly for neutral German lagers, W-34/70 is the same strain as WLP800 and WY2001.

For European ales though (English, Belgian, German, Flemish etc) I think there's a lot more variety to be had with the range of liquid options.

The 34/70 is usually said to be the WLP-830 and Wyeast-2124. It is the most widely used lager yeast since it was the one that Ludwig Narziss taught his students at Weihenstephan brewing school.

I stand corrected. 34/70 is my go to lager yeast.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2015, 02:37:43 PM »
For a neutral yeast, espcially for American ales, you can use dry US-05 interchangeably with WLP001 or WY1056. Similarly for neutral German lagers, W-34/70 is the same strain as WLP800 and WY2001.

For European ales though (English, Belgian, German, Flemish etc) I think there's a lot more variety to be had with the range of liquid options.

The 34/70 is usually said to be the WLP-830 and Wyeast-2124. It is the most widely used lager yeast since it was the one that Ludwig Narziss taught his students at Weihenstephan brewing school.

I wonder if that means it's particularly well suited to the Narziss ramped temp lager schedule.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2015, 02:50:03 PM »
For a neutral yeast, espcially for American ales, you can use dry US-05 interchangeably with WLP001 or WY1056. Similarly for neutral German lagers, W-34/70 is the same strain as WLP800 and WY2001.

For European ales though (English, Belgian, German, Flemish etc) I think there's a lot more variety to be had with the range of liquid options.

The 34/70 is usually said to be the WLP-830 and Wyeast-2124. It is the most widely used lager yeast since it was the one that Ludwig Narziss taught his students at Weihenstephan brewing school.

I wonder if that means it's particularly well suited to the Narziss ramped temp lager schedule.

That I do not know.
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Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2015, 11:18:56 PM »
.
34/70 is my go to lager yeast.
I really like it too, but I brewed a maibock today using S-189: a really good yeast if you can find it.
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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2015, 01:26:52 AM »
What's interesting about W-34/70 is that it is not a strain.  It's the 70th isolate of strain number 34.  Hefebank Weihenstephan also offers W-34/78.   

http://www.hefebank-weihenstephan.de/strains.html

What's an isolate you may ask?  Well, it's a single well-isolated colony from a plate.

The yeast culture in the photo shown below is from Scottish and Newcastle's Tyne Brewery.  The well isolated round colonies in the lower right-hand quadrant of the plate are isolates because each one was formed by the offspring of single yeast cell.  Yeast cells can undergo mutation in use.  Periodic isolate selection can lead to the selection of cultures that have slightly or radically different performance characteristics.




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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2015, 03:49:09 AM »
So unless we have lab rated instruments, and do lab level isolations, we cannot know with a reasonable degree of certainty that the yeast we repitch will achieve the same results as the lab produced specimen of that yeast, right?

But as a homebrewer can we accept the clean resulting yeast of an initial pitch with a fair degree of certainty to produce a similar beer?
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Offline rjharper

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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2015, 04:08:12 AM »
What's interesting about W-34/70 is that it is not a strain.  It's the 70th isolate of strain number 34.  Hefebank Weihenstephan also offers W-34/78.   

http://www.hefebank-weihenstephan.de/strains.html

What's an isolate you may ask?  Well, it's a single well-isolated colony from a plate.

The yeast culture in the photo shown below is from Scottish and Newcastle's Tyne Brewery.  The well isolated round colonies in the lower right-hand quadrant of the plate are isolates because each one was formed by the offspring of single yeast cell.  Yeast cells can undergo mutation in use.  Periodic isolate selection can lead to the selection of cultures that have slightly or radically different performance characteristics.



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Offline Iliff Ave Brewhouse

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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2015, 02:19:10 PM »
.
34/70 is my go to lager yeast.
I really like it too, but I brewed a maibock today using S-189: a really good yeast if you can find it.

This is to be released by Fermentis in 11.5 g sachets this year...
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2015, 03:12:18 PM »
.
34/70 is my go to lager yeast.
I really like it too, but I brewed a maibock today using S-189: a really good yeast if you can find it.

This is to be released by Fermentis in 11.5 g sachets this year...
Mark, or anyone else, do you have background on the origin of S-189?
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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2015, 03:26:35 PM »
So unless we have lab rated instruments, and do lab level isolations, we cannot know with a reasonable degree of certainty that the yeast we repitch will achieve the same results as the lab produced specimen of that yeast, right?

All yeast cultures drift over time.  That's why labs store important master cultures at -196C.  At that temperature, life goes into suspended animation.

I would argue that each of the BRY 96 descendents (i.e., "Chico," Wyeast 1056, WLP001, and US-05) are slightly different because they are isolates. 

Quote
But as a homebrewer can we accept the clean resulting yeast of an initial pitch with a fair degree of certainty to produce a similar beer?

In my humble opinion, home brewers should embrace drift, that is, as long as the drift is not affecting the finished product negatively.  Drift is how one develops a "house" yeast strain.  For example, there's zero doubt in my mind that the yeast strains used by Young's and Fuller's strain share a common ancestor.


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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2015, 03:30:13 PM »
Mark, or anyone else, do you have background on the origin of S-189?

I believe that the strain originates from the Hürlimann Brewery. 

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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2015, 03:50:52 PM »
Mark, or anyone else, do you have background on the origin of S-189?

I believe that the strain originates from the Hürlimann Brewery.

Yeah, that's what I've found also.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Liquid vs dry yeast?
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2015, 04:44:27 PM »
Mark, or anyone else, do you have background on the origin of S-189?

I believe that the strain originates from the Hürlimann Brewery.

Yeah, that's what I've found also.

If I ever do a 14% lager I will use this yeast.   ;)
Jeff Rankert
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