[Rattlesnake44]

Used tasty's water and had a hell of a boil I guess because I was 2 point under on pre boil grav and then post boil grave im 6 points over with my vol hit perfect so it's going to be alil higher abv then the original OG is 1.054

Color is dam close to levitation and I had to sub crystal 80 or 75 and 120 for 175 or what ever tht one was my LHBS had everything but the two I needed lol

IIRC I'm pretty sure I went a little over my post boil gravity too. Looks like things went your way today though for sure. Now the wait...

[Phil_M]

I just ordered ingredients for this brew. Still not sure what hopping rates I'll use, but there's plenty of time to decide between now and brew day. Hoping to either brew April 3rd or 4th.

[hophead636]

Used tasty's water and had a hell of a boil I guess because I was 2 point under on pre boil grav and then post boil grave im 6 points over with my vol hit perfect so it's going to be alil higher abv then the original OG is 1.054

Color is dam close to levitation and I had to sub crystal 80 or 75 and 120 for 175 or what ever tht one was my LHBS had everything but the two I needed lol

IIRC I'm pretty sure I went a little over my post boil gravity too. Looks like things went your way today though for sure. Now the wait...

I went to wall mart to get my RO water and there machine was down so they gave me two 5 gal carboys full of RO for the price of refills I'm pumped for two more fermenters so this day went smooth as heck and one of the best flowing brew day I have ever had used your hopping schedule and tasty's water profile can't wait for this one to be ready and keg up for the comp on the 26th. What carb level would you guys recomend on this beer?

[Rattlesnake44]

I tried for 2.5 volumes. Beer temp 40F, set my CO2 at 12.5 PSI and let it sit for a week. Then adjusted pressure to keep it pouring nice.

[Phil_M]

I've been playing with the recipe in Beersmith. Seems this software doesn't take the boil hops into account. I'd imagine the 90 minute hops would be pretty much used up, but the 10 minute addition could still have more bitterness to give.

I've going to use the Stone-prescribed hop amounts, and do a 60 minute hop stand/whirlpool at 194ºF since that's the temperature Beersmith uses for it's calculations. That gives me a predicted IBU value of 36. This is still not the 45 the beer is supposed to be, but it's a good middle of the road value. If my hop stand comes in to be over or under the predicted value I'll still be fine.

[Rattlesnake44]

I've been playing with the recipe in Beersmith. Seems this software doesn't take the boil hops into account. I'd imagine the 90 minute hops would be pretty much used up, but the 10 minute addition could still have more bitterness to give.

I've going to use the Stone-prescribed hop amounts, and do a 60 minute hop stand/whirlpool at 194ºF since that's the temperature Beersmith uses for it's calculations. That gives me a predicted IBU value of 36. This is still not the 45 the beer is supposed to be, but it's a good middle of the road value. If my hop stand comes in to be over or under the predicted value I'll still be fine.

I'm unsure what your goal here is. Do you want to brew a clone of Levitation, or do your own take on it? The reason I ask is you seem to be over thinking and over utilizing BeerSmith. Stone Brewers released the recipe online, professionals brewers. I can't imagine they did so without testing it under "homebrew" conditions. On CYBI Tasty and Jamil created their own recipe with input from Mitch Steele which closely resembles the recipe released online.
I brewed the CYBI recipe almost as written, I had to use different yeast, a 6 gallon batch so I ended up with 5 gallons in the keg. It tastes very similar to the original. I see no reason to try and change that if what you want is a clone. If what you want is your own twist on a Stone classic, then go for it. And please, share your results. I try and experiment with some of my favorites and am always interested in hearing about different takes on "classic" commercial beers.
DISCLAIMER-it's my Friday and I've been drinking. A lot.
Cheers

[Phil_M]

My thinking is that there's nothing wrong with the recipe-just that the process is different. I've got several of Stone's recipes in their book, plus from a few other locations. All of their recipes seem to have about 35% fewer IBUs than their advertised levels. Because of the consistent ~35% difference, I'm thinking the difference is process related. (Note-there are some outliers in the data. That Stone Pale Ale recipe is one, far more than 35% for that one.)

Also keep in mind I'm using the blog/book recipe, which was slightly different from the recipe that you posted.

It's not just beersmith, even doing these equations by hand will show the expected IBU levels to be far below the Stone-advertised levels. I'm just using beersmith to "gauge" how slight process changes can increase the IBU levels.

As for what I'm aiming for, I'd say I'm trying to get as close to Levitation as I can from all the data that I have. I've never had this beer fresh, typically most Stone beers are pretty close to their drink by date when they make it over to this side of the country. Hopefully Stone's new Richmond brewery will help solve this problem, but by then Levitation will be gone.

So all I have to compare it to is the posted data and thoughts from when I've had the beer well past its prime. Hence why I'm trying to reconcile the recipe with the advertised IBU levels. I remember this beer being distinctly bitter, but not a lot of hop aroma since it was old. I don't see the 22ish IBUs the recipe shows being nearly enough to get that effect.

That's the goal from this batch. If I brew this again I may change things up based on my preferences. Get rid of some of the crystal malt, maybe swap some hops around, etc.

[morticaixavier]

Hop utilization on a commercial scale is > 100% (wierd huh?). in fact, I beleive beersmith has a little blurb explaining this when setting those controls.

add to that a loooong whirlpool process even if it doesn't specify that in the recipe and you can really pick up some IBUs

[Phil_M]

Yeah, the whirlpool I think must be where the greater part of the discrepancy is made up.

I've never done one before, and after looking for data on hop utilization it seems there's not a lot of understanding yet on how it all works. Hence why I'm going to stick with a 1 hr stand to see how things work this time around.

[hopfenundmalz]

You can make beer with enough IBUs and no hops in the boil by doing a stand or whirlpool after the boil stops. Many have done it, as have I.

[HoosierBrew]

You can make beer with enough IBUs and no hops in the boil by doing a stand or whirlpool after the boil stops. Many have done it, as have I.

+1

[Phil_M]

And see, that's where my inexperience and a seeming lack of hard data comes into play. How long should I whirlpool for?

The only thing I've got to predict whirlpool IBUs is beersmith, and I don't fully trust it. Hence the 60 min whirlpool to ~36 IBUs. How long is a typical whirlpool? How long is too long? Thumbed through the "Hops" book from the Brewing Elements series, and it had very little information on whirlpools. Unless someone can guide me other wise I'll try 60 minutes at 194* this first time around. If that doesn't seem bitter enough, next time around I'll up the steep time.

[hopfenundmalz]

Kill the boil, add the hops and let it whirlpool for 45 minutes. I lose heat and am down to about 180-185 by then. Add more hops near 170 -175mfor more aroma if you wish.

[HoosierBrew]

And see, that's where my inexperience and a seeming lack of hard data comes into play. How long should I whirlpool for?

The only thing I've got to predict whirlpool IBUs is beersmith, and I don't fully trust it. Hence the 60 min whirlpool to ~36 IBUs. How long is a typical whirlpool? How long is too long? Thumbed through the "Hops" book from the Brewing Elements series, and it had very little information on whirlpools. Unless someone can guide me other wise I'll try 60 minutes at 194* this first time around. If that doesn't seem bitter enough, next time around I'll up the steep time.

Personally, I don't do all whirlpool hopping on hoppy styles, though I know people here have had good results. I like to add a 60 minute bittering addition to control bitterness accurately and then add all the late hops in the steep. But I will do an all whirlpool beer on something like a cream ale which only needs minimal IBUs - I add the hops for this beer at flameout and let steep for ~ 40 minutes.

[Rattlesnake44]

My thinking is that there's nothing wrong with the recipe-just that the process is different. I've got several of Stone's recipes in their book, plus from a few other locations. All of their recipes seem to have about 35% fewer IBUs than their advertised levels. Because of the consistent ~35% difference, I'm thinking the difference is process related. (Note-there are some outliers in the data. That Stone Pale Ale recipe is one, far more than 35% for that one.)

Also keep in mind I'm using the blog/book recipe, which was slightly different from the recipe that you posted.

It's not just beersmith, even doing these equations by hand will show the expected IBU levels to be far below the Stone-advertised levels. I'm just using beersmith to "gauge" how slight process changes can increase the IBU levels.

As for what I'm aiming for, I'd say I'm trying to get as close to Levitation as I can from all the data that I have. I've never had this beer fresh, typically most Stone beers are pretty close to their drink by date when they make it over to this side of the country. Hopefully Stone's new Richmond brewery will help solve this problem, but by then Levitation will be gone.

So all I have to compare it to is the posted data and thoughts from when I've had the beer well past its prime. Hence why I'm trying to reconcile the recipe with the advertised IBU levels. I remember this beer being distinctly bitter, but not a lot of hop aroma since it was old. I don't see the 22ish IBUs the recipe shows being nearly enough to get that effect.

That's the goal from this batch. If I brew this again I may change things up based on my preferences. Get rid of some of the crystal malt, maybe swap some hops around, etc.

Roger that. I'm eager to hear what the different process will produce. Please keep us informed and let us know how it turns out.
When are you thinking about brewing this?