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Author Topic: Decoction - The Toast Test  (Read 11852 times)

Offline erockrph

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #75 on: March 31, 2015, 10:16:32 am »

  Numbers don't drink beer, and humans don't drink numbers.
But humans eat pi.
And you can't spell pedantic without pi  ;D
Eric B.

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #76 on: March 31, 2015, 10:17:14 am »

  Numbers don't drink beer, and humans don't drink numbers.
But humans eat pi.
And you can't spell pedantic without pi  ;D

Good call.
Jon H.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #77 on: March 31, 2015, 12:20:38 pm »
Has anyone noticed that one the main AHA page there is a recipe for a Maerzen that specifies a decoction mash? It is by Dan Gordon, but he is a German trained brewer, so he has that baggage.  ;)

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/dans-marzen/

Just had to point it out as this thread has been going on for a while.

that's more or less the same as my maerzen recipe minue the caramunich and the decoction.

I will agree to decoct, but not lager for 6 weeks - I follow the Brulosopher approach now - so I guess I'm entering the enlightenment period of my brewing.... :P
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #78 on: March 31, 2015, 02:05:18 pm »
If you brew enough and keep the pipeline full lagering a couple months is easy

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #79 on: March 31, 2015, 04:10:37 pm »
If you brew enough and keep the pipeline full lagering a couple months is easy

You don't know my friends, Jim.  I would have to brew every week, 10 gallon batches to get firmly in the lead.  They got a good thing going...and I welcome it.  It has made me a better brewer to keep the lagers in the pipeline.  I am trying to get them to accept an ale or two now and then.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #80 on: March 31, 2015, 04:26:20 pm »
You don't know my friends, Jim.  I would have to brew every week, 10 gallon batches to get firmly in the lead.  They got a good thing going...and I welcome it. 

Yeah, no kidding !  I brew way more than I can drink, and there's no shortage of people ready to drain my leftovers. I don't mind, I get to brew more often.
Jon H.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #81 on: March 31, 2015, 04:39:18 pm »
Not bad problems to have.

Offline wobdee

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #82 on: April 01, 2015, 01:49:01 pm »
Has anyone noticed that one the main AHA page there is a recipe for a Maerzen that specifies a decoction mash? It is by Dan Gordon, but he is a German trained brewer, so he has that baggage.  ;)

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/dans-marzen/

Just had to point it out as this thread has been going on for a while.
That's a nice looking recipe. I think I will try it without the decoction and just use a direct heat step mash at those temps he lists. Any recommendations for the times at those temps?

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #83 on: April 01, 2015, 03:03:27 pm »
Has anyone noticed that one the main AHA page there is a recipe for a Maerzen that specifies a decoction mash? It is by Dan Gordon, but he is a German trained brewer, so he has that baggage.  ;)

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/dans-marzen/

Just had to point it out as this thread has been going on for a while.
That's a nice looking recipe. I think I will try it without the decoction and just use a direct heat step mash at those temps he lists. Any recommendations for the times at those temps?

I have had luck following Kai's outline of the Hochkurz step mash.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Infusion_Mashing
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #84 on: April 02, 2015, 08:48:11 am »
Not trying to throw fuel on the decoction debate fire, but I've got a question:

What temperature does the decoction boil at?

I realize that "212 degrees at sea level on a standard day" would be the default answer...but doesn't the presence of sugars perhaps raise that temperature? Consider candy making: as more water is boiled away from the sugar solution, the temperature increases. Granted, that is a MUCH thicker sugar solution than you'd likely find in a decoction boil, but the temperature should in theory still be higher.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

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Offline denny

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #85 on: April 02, 2015, 09:03:48 am »
Not trying to throw fuel on the decoction debate fire, but I've got a question:

What temperature does the decoction boil at?

I realize that "212 degrees at sea level on a standard day" would be the default answer...but doesn't the presence of sugars perhaps raise that temperature? Consider candy making: as more water is boiled away from the sugar solution, the temperature increases. Granted, that is a MUCH thicker sugar solution than you'd likely find in a decoction boil, but the temperature should in theory still be higher.

Not enough sugar tpo make a real difference.
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #86 on: April 02, 2015, 10:25:38 am »
Not enough sugar tpo make a real difference.

That's about what I expected. What affect does starch/malt granules have on boiling temp?
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #87 on: April 04, 2015, 06:07:09 am »
Not enough sugar tpo make a real difference.

That's about what I expected. What affect does starch/malt granules have on boiling temp?

again, not significant. especially because you should not have much starch in the boil.

I've measured the boiling temp of a 1.100 boiling wort at a handful of feet above sea level and the difference was a degree or two tops. That could be accounted for by difference in atmospheric pressure.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #88 on: April 04, 2015, 06:35:37 am »
Not enough sugar tpo make a real difference.

That's about what I expected. What affect does starch/malt granules have on boiling temp?

again, not significant. especially because you should not have much starch in the boil.

I've measured the boiling temp of a 1.100 boiling wort at a handful of feet above sea level and the difference was a degree or two tops. That could be accounted for by difference in atmospheric pressure.

A 1.100 wort is about 24% sugar, and you can see that as you say only a few degrees higher. At my elevation (900 ft), that puts it up to about 212F, normally water boils at right about 210F here.
check the  graph in the link.
http://kitchenscience.sci-toys.com/boiling_freezing_pressure
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Offline coolman26

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Re: Decoction - The Toast Test
« Reply #89 on: April 04, 2015, 08:44:13 am »
You don't know my friends, Jim.  I would have to brew every week, 10 gallon batches to get firmly in the lead.  They got a good thing going...and I welcome it. 

Yeah, no kidding !  I brew way more than I can drink, and there's no shortage of people ready to drain my leftovers. I don't mind, I get to brew more often.

My friends are cyclical, when the beer dries up towards fall, so does the knock on the door.  I enjoy their faces when they take that sip.  One friend tells me how beer is his passion.  I disagree, his passion is drinking good "free" beer. 
As for the decoction debate, I guess I'm in the no thanks camp.  I tried decoction once, never felt the need to revisit.  I do love to read everyone's experiences.  I would love to taste the results of a triangle test, just not produce the decoction.  The mess I made of the first attempt made me enjoy the complexity of my single infusion pils. 
Jeff B