Author Topic: Longer boil, darker color?  (Read 1238 times)

Offline byerley

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Longer boil, darker color?
« on: March 25, 2015, 09:27:05 PM »
Hi everyone,

I've read from various sources that Timothy Taylor's Landlord Pale Ale (a classic English Best Bitter) uses 100% Golden Promise malt. But it sure looks like it has at least some crystal for color. I know if I used 100% Golden Promise, my beer would turn out much lighter in color than commercial Landlord.

I'm wondering if the color comes from a longer boil? If I upped my boil time from 60 to 90 minutes would I produce a slightly darker beer? Or should I just compensate with a small amount of crystal if I'm worried about it?

Thanks!

« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 10:10:37 PM by byerley »

Offline dzlater

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Re: Longer boil, darker color?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2015, 10:46:37 PM »
I've heard a longer boil will darken the wort.
I think next time I do a 90 minute boil I'm going to take a sample after an hour and compare it to the wort after 90 min.
You can always throw in an ounce or two of chocolate malt to darken it up.
Dan S. from NJ

Offline Frankenbrew

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Re: Longer boil, darker color?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2015, 12:00:15 AM »
Not an expert on this, but I've heard that you have to really boil it hard to begin caramelizing the sugars in the wort to darken it. Let's see what others say.
Frank C.

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heart, you brew good ale.'

Offline jeffy

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Re: Longer boil, darker color?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2015, 12:02:55 AM »
We had a thread about the recipe for this a while ago.
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=11846.msg239469#msg239469
My recipe uses a little black malt for color I think.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Offline markpotts

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Re: Longer boil, darker color?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2015, 09:44:15 AM »
This is a highly regarded and much discussed beer here in England.
The brewery give little to no information on recipes, but the  general consensus is that the beer is colour adjusted with brewers caramel.
Like jeffy, I used to use a little black malt to adjust the colour but no longer bother these days when I make it.
Yorkshire, England

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Longer boil, darker color?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2015, 10:30:06 AM »
Isn't Golden Promise a cultivar? Like Maris Otter? If so, what has the cultivar that they use have to do with how long it's kilned or stewed or toasted?

Another way they get their beer darker is by using EBC instead of SRM.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 10:36:40 AM by klickitat jim »

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Longer boil, darker color?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2015, 11:23:26 AM »
This is a highly regarded and much discussed beer here in England.
The brewery give little to no information on recipes, but the  general consensus is that the beer is colour adjusted with brewers caramel.
Like jeffy, I used to use a little black malt to adjust the colour but no longer bother these days when I make it.

This ^^^^^

The Brits have been using "brewer's caramel" for artificial coloring for more than 100 years.  It's like a black tar and they add just a little bit.  You can simulate the same thing at home just by adding a couple ounces of dehusked black malt.

The effect of a longer boil is very very small.  You'd have to boil for far longer to get significant darkening, or else concentrate your boil volume and then add water at the end.  Commercial brewers probably don't do those things, but who knows.
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Longer boil, darker color?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2015, 11:32:14 AM »
Isn't Golden Promise a cultivar? Like Maris Otter? If so, what has the cultivar that they use have to do with how long it's kilned or stewed or toasted?

Another way they get their beer darker is by using EBC instead of SRM.

GP is a British malt variety just like Maris Otter, Pearl, Optic and so on. The GP we get is from Simpsons at 2 L and Fawcett at 3.5 L. The Fawcett is kilned longer/higher temp. 

Some have speculated on the British homebrew forums that TTL may be made with crystal malt that was made from GP green malt. I have no idea if that is true, but is a possibility.

"Another way they get their beer darker is by using EBC instead of SRM." They also save energy by boiling in Celsius.  ;D
Jeff Rankert
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Longer boil, darker color?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2015, 12:09:38 PM »

"Another way they get their beer darker is by using EBC instead of SRM." They also save energy by boiling in Celsius.  ;D

;D   

EDIT -  I save money by buying malt in kg instead of lbs, too.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 12:55:44 PM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Longer boil, darker color?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2015, 06:57:50 PM »
In any event, I highly doubt that its due to boiling extra long. Not a very good biz plan. Imagine the meeting for that one. (cue Waynes World dream scene fingers...)

William: "So, I think it would be simply smashing if we could say that we only use pale malt in our beer. The down side is that our power bill will double or triple, but think of all the chaps in pubs rubbing their heads in wonder."

Timothy: "BRILLIANT! "

Nigel: "Or... and I'm just thinking out loud here... we could double our profit margin by just starting a rumor that we only use pale malt."

Timothy: "Mmmmmmmmmmm, no. That's stupid Nigel, we're going with the pale only plan. I will make up the profit difference by simply not paying the rent. Now then, what shall we call it?"

Offline toby

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Re: Longer boil, darker color?
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2015, 07:07:34 PM »
If I upped my boil time from 60 to 90 minutes would I produce a slightly darker beer? Or should I just compensate with a small amount of crystal if I'm worried about it?
You would theoretically produce a slightly darker beer with a longer vigorous boil.  But the catch is that it would be so slight that you probably wouldn't be able to tell.  As far as crystal, it would depend on the flavor profile you're going for.  For the least impact to flavor, debittered/dehusked black malt added at a few minutes before the end of the mash would probably be the way to go.

Offline brewday

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Re: Longer boil, darker color?
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2015, 07:12:21 PM »
Timothy: "Mmmmmmmmmmm, no. That's stupid Nigel, we're going with the pale only plan. I will make up the profit difference by simply not paying the rent. Now then, what shall we call it?"

I'm still chuckling.  Priceless!
Jon Weaver

Offline byerley

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Re: Longer boil, darker color?
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2015, 11:34:05 PM »
Thanks everyone!

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Longer boil, darker color?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2015, 12:05:28 AM »
Thanks everyone!
Oh you're totally welcome. Glad I was able to be so helpful.

Offline pete b

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Re: Longer boil, darker color?
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2015, 01:18:38 PM »
Jim is in top form lately. Must be the camper.
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.