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Author Topic: continental vs domestic malt flavors  (Read 3643 times)

Offline theoman

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Re: continental vs domestic malt flavors
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2015, 07:32:41 am »
So... If some malts are "fully modified", can others be "more modified"? If so, what's the point? How can they be more modified than fully? Perhaps a mash using adjuncts or undermodified malts will convert better if the fully modified malts are more fully modified than the less fully modified malts?

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: continental vs domestic malt flavors
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2015, 07:43:03 am »
Perhaps a mash using adjuncts or undermodified malts will convert better if the fully modified malts are more fully modified than the less fully modified malts?

Sounds sort of silly, but that's how I take it. Explains why maltsters like Briess are dropping 6 row altogether.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: continental vs domestic malt flavors
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2015, 07:52:27 am »
Even if true, it's irrelevant.  Every malt out there is well modified these days.  A few years ago when I purposely tried to source an undermodified malt for a traditional decoction mash, I came up empty handed -- it didn't exist.

Floor malted barley tends to be less modified. The stuff you can find here is not terribly far apart from non-floor malted but if you can source from smaller German or Czech maltsters (and I have no idea how you could do it) that is floor malted it is known to be even less modified.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: continental vs domestic malt flavors
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2015, 08:39:28 am »
Perhaps a mash using adjuncts or undermodified malts will convert better if the fully modified malts are more fully modified than the less fully modified malts?

Sounds sort of silly, but that's how I take it. Explains why maltsters like Briess are dropping 6 row altogether.
Six row is not being planted as much as it was, some 2 row varieties  in NA now have a DP of 160 Lintner, and a higher extract. So six row's advantages have gone away.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: continental vs domestic malt flavors
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2015, 08:46:55 am »
As I understand it, there are two big things that american maltsters and continental maltsters look for in grain differently, one is nitrogen content and the other is diastatic power. the high adjust american breweries that have, until recently, set malt production targets here in north  america need and very high nitrogen levels and very high diastatic power while the continental all malt breweries see high nitrogen as a real problem and just don't need the high diastatic power so it's not a target for growers and breeders there.
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Offline beersk

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Re: continental vs domestic malt flavors
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2015, 10:49:32 am »
Around here, too!
The beer isn't EXACTLY like those German lagers, but pretty good and certainly better than many American versions. I'm pretty much convinced now that whatever that flavor is that we get is just the fact that the beer has to travel so far and so long to get here...staleness or slight oxidation, I'd say.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: continental vs domestic malt flavors
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2015, 10:58:09 am »
I'm pretty much convinced now that whatever that flavor is that we get is just the fact that the beer has to travel so far and so long to get here...staleness or slight oxidation, I'd say.

Yep, same here.
Jon H.

Offline JT

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Re: continental vs domestic malt flavors
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2015, 11:17:04 am »
Even if true, it's irrelevant.  Every malt out there is well modified these days.  A few years ago when I purposely tried to source an undermodified malt for a traditional decoction mash, I came up empty handed -- it didn't exist.
Glad you posted this.  So is there absolutely no need to do any rests with any of today's malts (in terms of getting full conversion)?  Are there any exceptions to this?  I definitely need to beef up my knowledge in this area. 

Offline mabrungard

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Re: continental vs domestic malt flavors
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2015, 11:21:54 am »

Floor malted barley tends to be less modified. The stuff you can find here is not terribly far apart from non-floor malted but if you can source from smaller German or Czech maltsters (and I have no idea how you could do it) that is floor malted it is known to be even less modified.

While I agree that floor malted tends to be less modified 'in average', I like what one of my clubmates terms floor malted as. He calls it more variable or inconsistent. In other words, there can be some kernels that are highly modified and some that are very poorly modified...the net result is that the overall modification is a little lower. Compare that result with the high degree of uniformity that non-floor malted malts present.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: continental vs domestic malt flavors
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2015, 11:28:56 am »
And full conversion is just that - conversion to fermentables.  There are arguable flavor benefits to a number of historical processes, such as decoction or step mashing, which some brewers swear by even with fully modified malts.  I don't have the science background to point out the "why", but as to resulting flavor, I know a fellow who swears by a protein rest and a decoction on a lagers to get certain flavor profiles and his lagers are wonderful (and award winning).
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Offline denny

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Re: continental vs domestic malt flavors
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2015, 11:42:21 am »
Even if true, it's irrelevant.  Every malt out there is well modified these days.  A few years ago when I purposely tried to source an undermodified malt for a traditional decoction mash, I came up empty handed -- it didn't exist.
Glad you posted this.  So is there absolutely no need to do any rests with any of today's malts (in terms of getting full conversion)?  Are there any exceptions to this?  I definitely need to beef up my knowledge in this area.

That's what I've been preaching for years.
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Offline denny

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Re: continental vs domestic malt flavors
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2015, 11:43:11 am »
And full conversion is just that - conversion to fermentables.  There are arguable flavor benefits to a number of historical processes, such as decoction or step mashing, which some brewers swear by even with fully modified malts.  I don't have the science background to point out the "why", but as to resulting flavor, I know a fellow who swears by a protein rest and a decoction on a lagers to get certain flavor profiles and his lagers are wonderful (and award winning).

Has he ever done a blind triangle tasting to verify that?
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