Author Topic: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer  (Read 1320 times)

Offline stevecrawshaw

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Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« on: March 27, 2015, 11:32:46 AM »
Hi
Despite my heroic efforts to reduce exposure to air when transferring hoppy beers from FV to keg (and keg to keg), I was recently upset to find out that an otherwise very good hoppy american session ale was starting to show signs of oxidation - short finish, cardboard taste. This was in a keg. I read up on this problem, which I observe in hoppy beers more than other styles. In the Beersmith podcast with charlie bamforth on beer stability CB states that you can get rid of this flaw with yeast. So i decided to put it to the test. I made a small starter using mauribrew dried yeast and pitched into the keg when it was at high krauesen. Have left it for a week or so now. I tasted it last night and the oxidation flavour (trans 2 nonal I believe) has gone!

There is however a hint of diacetyl, which I hope will disappear with time. It is certainly nicer than the "untreated" beer and has gone from being a tipper into a drinker.

In the podcast CB also talks about using sodium metabisulphite as a precautionary measure to improve stability and reduce oxidation. I think I will try this for a subsequent hoppy style as I am quite sensitive to oxidised flavour in hoppy beers and I don't like tipping beer. Not too worried about rheinheitsgebot..

Anyway, if you encounter this issue, adding yeast in the keg appears to resolve it, so worth a go..

cheers
steve
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2015, 11:40:15 AM »
From something I picked up on the old HBD back in the late 90s early 2000s timeframe, as to mix a campden tablet into the mash. The SO2 is an antioxidant that inhibits the oxidation of the malt compounds that lead to stalling. Any remaining SO2 is driven off in the boil.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2015, 11:42:21 AM »
From something I picked up on the old HBD back in the late 90s early 2000s timeframe, as to mix a campden tablet into the mash. The SO2 is an antioxidant that inhibits the oxidation of the malt compounds that lead to stalling. Any remaining SO2 is driven off in the boil.

Never heard that one.  Good info.
Jon H.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2015, 11:53:05 AM »
Been doing that for a long time. Other things that are antioxidants are cinnamon and coriander.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2015, 11:56:21 AM »
Been doing that for a long time. Other things that are antioxidants are cinnamon and coriander.

I'd heard that about the spices, but not the campden. I have plenty on hand that I use for ciders. Think I'll give it a try. Thanks !
Jon H.

Offline kramerog

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Re: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2015, 03:48:42 PM »
There is also a lot of evidence that hot side aeration is not an issue in homebrew.  http://brulosophy.com/2014/11/18/is-hot-side-aeration-fact-or-fiction-exbeeriment-results/

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2015, 03:53:57 PM »
There is also a lot of evidence that hot side aeration is not an issue in homebrew.  http://brulosophy.com/2014/11/18/is-hot-side-aeration-fact-or-fiction-exbeeriment-results/
Dr. Bramforth has said a good healthy fermentation takes care of HSA, so don't worry about it.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2015, 04:06:38 PM »
I don't see HSA as much of a risk based on the info from Bamforth and others, either. 
Jon H.

Offline yso191

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Re: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2015, 05:10:10 PM »
From something I picked up on the old HBD back in the late 90s early 2000s timeframe, as to mix a campden tablet into the mash. The SO2 is an antioxidant that inhibits the oxidation of the malt compounds that lead to stalling. Any remaining SO2 is driven off in the boil.

I'm going to buy some campden tablets!  Thanks!
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2015, 05:17:53 PM »
I haven't factored Campden tablets into the chemical mix, since I use RO, but how would one account for a tablet in the mash under the Brunwater spreadsheet.  I am sensitive to water being chemically balanced and fear any changes, unless they are justified.  Longer storage life is not an issue with my friends.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2015, 05:39:42 PM »
I haven't factored Campden tablets into the chemical mix, since I use RO, but how would one account for a tablet in the mash under the Brunwater spreadsheet.  I am sensitive to water being chemically balanced and fear any changes, unless they are justified.  Longer storage life is not an issue with my friends.

I use RO, don't notice any problems, but have not A-B it on the same recipe.
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Offline denny

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Re: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2015, 05:45:40 PM »
From something I picked up on the old HBD back in the late 90s early 2000s timeframe, as to mix a campden tablet into the mash. The SO2 is an antioxidant that inhibits the oxidation of the malt compounds that lead to stalling. Any remaining SO2 is driven off in the boil.

I experimented with this for over a year.  I finally stopped when I saw no difference.  To me, that meant that either it didn't work or I didn't have the problem to solve in the first place.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2015, 06:23:48 PM »
From something I picked up on the old HBD back in the late 90s early 2000s timeframe, as to mix a campden tablet into the mash. The SO2 is an antioxidant that inhibits the oxidation of the malt compounds that lead to stalling. Any remaining SO2 is driven off in the boil.

I experimented with this for over a year.  I finally stopped when I saw no difference.  To me, that meant that either it didn't work or I didn't have the problem to solve in the first place.

Not much work to put it in. Then again, sometimes it gets missed, no difference.

I do like to do it for the Helles and Pilsners. Those are good until late summer/fall if they last that long.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline denny

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Re: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2015, 07:12:31 PM »
Not much work to put it in. Then again, sometimes it gets missed, no difference.

I do like to do it for the Helles and Pilsners. Those are good until late summer/fall if they last that long.

Yeah, definitely no trouble to use it.  I just didn't see the point after I tried it.  I also do the elephant dance by spinning around 3 times before I brew.  No trouble to do and I haven't seen a single elephant around here!  ;)
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Eliminating oxidation flaw in kegged beer
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2015, 08:07:17 PM »
Not much work to put it in. Then again, sometimes it gets missed, no difference.

I do like to do it for the Helles and Pilsners. Those are good until late summer/fall if they last that long.

Yeah, definitely no trouble to use it.  I just didn't see the point after I tried it.  I also do the elephant dance by spinning around 3 times before I brew.  No trouble to do and I haven't seen a single elephant around here!  ;)

Someday it might be good to do 2 batches of Pilsner, one with, one without, and see if there are any long term differences. But the Pils usually goes fast in this house.
Jeff Rankert
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