[beerstache]

Would it still be "overpitching" if your previous beers O.G. was 1050 and your next beer is a higher gravity such as 1080?..The proper procedure is to go from lower to higher gravity when you repitch, so it probably isnt overpitching then...just my thoughts

[Frankenbrew]

Dave, this suggestion comes up all the time, but the question it engenders is: is the whole yeast cake too much? Is it overpitching?

And it's one of those controversial topics. Some say it is overpitching, and some say it isn't. So regardless of how many of these threads I read, I never really know the answer.

I agree.  It's right up there with adding CaraPils to a Pale Ale for head retention.   

I can only speak from experience.  I've probably pitched on the cake (with light lagers no less) over a dozen times with excellent results.  Never a problem.

Dave

Just to make this clear for a noob, when you say "pitch on the cake", do you mean "dump a new batch into the old fermenter without cleaning it out"?

the thinking is that if the bucket is 'clean' enough that the batch just in it isn't contaminated than the next batch will be fine to. It seems to work out that way to. But the dried on gunk get's really hard to clean after the second batch.

Okay, you folks have talked me into it. I now have a batch of dunkel that I brewed a couple of weeks ago (1.055). I'm planning a Maibock in two more weeks (1.070) which should coincide nicely with the kegging of the dunkel. As a testiment to how much I trust y'all, I'm going to transfer the Maibock from kettle to cake. Thanks.

[morticaixavier]

Would it still be "overpitching" if your previous beers O.G. was 1050 and your next beer is a higher gravity such as 1080?..The proper procedure is to go from lower to higher gravity when you repitch, so it probably isnt overpitching then...just my thoughts

at 1.080 a full cake would for sure still be way overpitching. even at 1.100 it's way overpitching.

[ynotbrusum]

I agree with Jonathon - practice good sanitation and follow a yeast calculator for pitch rate.  The most I ever repitched a yeast for lagers was somewhere in the mid 20's (i.e., 20 times re-used).  No sanitation related problems encountered.  Then again, some yeast just don't track that well beyond 4-5 repitches.

One thing I would do, though, is taste that beer coming off the primary to be sure that it is totally free from any off flavors before pitching the second batch onto the yeast cake.  And have a backup yeast ready (such as 34/70 sachets) just in case you need to use it.

[davidgzach]

Good luck and please let us know how it turns out.  I'm sure it will be just fine.

Dave

[Frankenbrew]

I agree with Jonathon - practice good sanitation and follow a yeast calculator for pitch rate.  The most I ever repitched a yeast for lagers was somewhere in the mid 20's (i.e., 20 times re-used).  No sanitation related problems encountered.  Then again, some yeast just don't track that well beyond 4-5 repitches.

One thing I would do, though, is taste that beer coming off the primary to be sure that it is totally free from any off flavors before pitching the second batch onto the yeast cake.  And have a backup yeast ready (such as 34/70 sachets) just in case you need to use it.

Would it still be "overpitching" if your previous beers O.G. was 1050 and your next beer is a higher gravity such as 1080?..The proper procedure is to go from lower to higher gravity when you repitch, so it probably isnt overpitching then...just my thoughts

at 1.080 a full cake would for sure still be way overpitching. even at 1.100 it's way overpitching.

Just when I thought it was settled!

I usually collect the yeast and put it in Mason jars for storage or in a measuring cup for immediate re-pitching. Obviously,  pitching onto the cake would be the more sanitary option because the only new thing the yeast comes in contact with is the new wort. So, it would be convenient to just pitch onto the cake. I thought that folks in this thread were saying you could run the new wort right onto the cake. I guess not. I'll just have to continue my current method. Nothing gained, nothing lost.

[reverseapachemaster]

I wish I could pitch on the cake.  I need my 15 gallon fermenters for the next batch. Their in 8 gallon buckets.   I'll wipe the rim of the bucket with alcohol and dump it in I guess.  Not sure if dipping carries less risk.  After tasting today before crashing, I wish I had made more.  The 802 batch is fantastic.  The 2000 doesn't have that nice German flavor.  The hops do come through more with the 2000 though.  I haven't used any slurry calculator.  It may take the majority or whole cake anyway.

Both 802 and 2000 are Czech strains so whatever you identify as "that nice German flavor" is less likely to be found with either strain. I will say that WY2000 is great for hoppy lagers but it can be a real pain to get it to clear out without a longer lagering period than some other strains. You might be getting some yeast in suspension giving you a yeast bite that will clear up and give you a cleaner profile down the road.

[erockrph]

Would it still be "overpitching" if your previous beers O.G. was 1050 and your next beer is a higher gravity such as 1080?..The proper procedure is to go from lower to higher gravity when you repitch, so it probably isnt overpitching then...just my thoughts

at 1.080 a full cake would for sure still be way overpitching. even at 1.100 it's way overpitching.

If you play around with some of the yeast calculators, it's not necessarily as much of an overpitch as you might think depending on which growth model you use.

If you pitch 400 billion cells into 5 gallons of a 1.050 lager, the starter calculator on Brewer's Friend returns values of ~1200b-~1400b cells in the final beer for the various non-stirplate growth models. Depending on the pitch rate you're looking for in your high-gravity lagers, that's not all that much of an overpitch - especially since few of us are actually counting cells.

edit - add billion where needed

[morticaixavier]

Would it still be "overpitching" if your previous beers O.G. was 1050 and your next beer is a higher gravity such as 1080?..The proper procedure is to go from lower to higher gravity when you repitch, so it probably isnt overpitching then...just my thoughts

at 1.080 a full cake would for sure still be way overpitching. even at 1.100 it's way overpitching.

If you play around with some of the yeast calculators, it's not necessarily as much of an overpitch as you might think depending on which growth model you use.

If you pitch 400 billion cells into 5 gallons of a 1.050 lager, the starter calculator on Brewer's Friend returns values of ~1200-~1400 cells in the final beer for the various non-stirplate growth models. Depending on the pitch rate you're looking for in your high-gravity lagers, that's not all that much of an overpitch - especially since few of us are actually counting cells.

I realized a bit after you posted this that I didn't take lager v ale into account. You are probably right in that case.

[Frankenbrew]

So, it's not really overpitching that much is what I get. So if that is the case, it would be worth doing for no other reason than to see for myself if it works out. I think I'm going to do it with the Maibock. I'll report back with my findings in a couple of months.

[ynotbrusum]

So, it's not really overpitching that much is what I get. So if that is the case, it would be worth doing for no other reason than to see for myself if it works out. I think I'm going to do it with the Maibock. I'll report back with my findings in a couple of months.

Go for it and see for yourself.  I doubt that it will be a problem.  I just pointed out that the lagers can be a bit one-dimensional when overpitched, based on my experience; but like it was said, we aren't counting cells in any accurate manner, so who knows for certain?  Don't fear going in the direction of simplicity, but be perceptive of distinctions as you do.  I brewed the exact same lager recipe numerous times in a row to get a feel for many different things, including trying to appreciate yeast drift.  One strain seemed to have little to none (WLP800).

[davidgzach]

So, it's not really overpitching that much is what I get. So if that is the case, it would be worth doing for no other reason than to see for myself if it works out. I think I'm going to do it with the Maibock. I'll report back with my findings in a couple of months.

Go for it.  It will be just fine.  I've put 1.050 wort on top of 1.050 cakes and made great beer.  I think overpitching, especially lagers is the "sky is falling" view of homebrewing, IMHO of course.....

Dave

[chumley]

Yes, the overpitching of lager yeast seems to be the twenty-teens version of the "hot-side aeration" controversy of yesteryear.

[davidgzach]

Yes, the overpitching of lager yeast seems to be the twenty-teens version of the "hot-side aeration" controversy of yesteryear.

Indeed....


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[coolman26]

My original two beers are at 35 degrees. I'm brewing the next round next week.  I'm guessing I should keg them the morning before I brew.  Then let the yeast warm during the brew day, and then re-pitch into my next batches?  I'm assuming it wouldn't be good to pitch 48 degree wort onto yeast in the 30's?