Author Topic: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel  (Read 5268 times)

T100

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Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« on: April 01, 2015, 02:47:18 PM »
The Ayinger Dunkel.

Website says 5.0% ABV and 12.8P OG.

21-22 IBU seems reasonable.

Skeptical as to the inclusion of a crystal malt, though the website does say 5 types of malt are used.  This is different than some earlier authors report.  Of course recipes change over time.  Were I to craft a recipe using 5 types of malt, they would probably be: Munich II, Vienna, Pilsner, Caramunich and Carafa Special II.

An older article on dunkel, but still an interesting read:

http://www.doctorbeer.com/jay/articles/btdunkel.htm

Here's my recipe based on the older article:

OG-1.053
FG-1.015
ABV-5.0
IBU-21-22
SRM-16
(75% Efficiency)

7.2 lbs German Dark Munich
3.2 lbs German Pilsner
.25 lbs German Carafa II Special

Bittering, 18 IBU - from Hallertau Mittlefruh
Flavor/Aroma, 4 IBU - from Hallertau Mittlefruh

Infusion Mash @ 153F for 90min.

WLP 833 @50F w/ diacetyl rest.

Thoughts?  Has anyone come close?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 04:22:15 PM by T100 »

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2015, 03:07:13 PM »
FYI - WLP-833 is said to be the Ayinger strain.
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Offline denny

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Re: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2015, 03:48:25 PM »
That beer has been my "Holy Grail quest" for over 10 years.  I got in the ballpark once.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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T100

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Re: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2015, 04:22:31 PM »
FYI - WLP-833 is said to be the Ayinger strain.

Yes, thank you for reminding me.

T100

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Re: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2015, 04:23:22 PM »
That beer has been my "Holy Grail quest" for over 10 years.  I got in the ballpark once.

Wow, you're persistent!

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2015, 06:11:57 PM »
According to Zainashef their recipe is 100% light Munich. So 5 types of malt must be five different cultivars or 5 different maltsters.

T100

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Re: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2015, 07:16:29 PM »
Though I'm not certain, the recipe in the linked document seems to have been helped by information from the then brewmaster at Ayinger, "Iwan, Jans Jurgen", of course recipes change over time and some breweries do tend towards disinformation (don't know that's the case here) while others are just straightforward.

Offline udubdawg

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Re: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2015, 07:36:06 PM »
I've come pretty close to the real thing.  The "dark" character just seemed to develop over months of sitting in a keg on my basement floor.  Almost entered it in NHC again.

be warned that with 4B and especially 5C, if you create a beer that has as much chocolate as Ayinger's Dunkel and especially Celebrator, you can expect a great number of judges to find that a fault.  *sigh*

good luck--
--Michael

Offline Quadrupled

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Re: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2016, 12:05:51 PM »
That beer has been my "Holy Grail quest" for over 10 years.  I got in the ballpark once.

Reviving an old thread.

Denny, any chance you'd share your most current ballpark recipe?

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2016, 02:52:51 PM »
I toured the Ayinger brewery last month. They have 4 barley malts and 1 wheat malt stocked for their beers.

The barley malts are Pils, Munich, CaraMunich II, and Carafa II. They use a long mash schedule for their beers, about 4 hours.

Edit - of course the proportions change from a Helles to the Celebrator.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 08:18:02 PM by hopfenundmalz »
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Offline denny

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Re: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2016, 03:54:52 PM »
That beer has been my "Holy Grail quest" for over 10 years.  I got in the ballpark once.

Reviving an old thread.

Denny, any chance you'd share your most current ballpark recipe?

It's been years since I've taken a shot at it.  I'll see if I can dig up the recipe fro my best try.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Quadrupled

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Re: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2016, 05:50:00 PM »
That beer has been my "Holy Grail quest" for over 10 years.  I got in the ballpark once.

Reviving an old thread.

Denny, any chance you'd share your most current ballpark recipe?

It's been years since I've taken a shot at it.  I'll see if I can dig up the recipe fro my best try.

That's great, thanks for taking a look and sharing.

Offline Hella Hazy

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Re: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2016, 08:05:17 PM »
And here I thought you'd pretty much just want to use 100% Munich II for fermentables plus a little Carafa special for color...

Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2016, 10:17:39 PM »
I toured the Ayinger brewery last month. They have 4 barley malts and 1 wheat malt stocked for their beers.

The barley malts are Pils, Munich, CaraMunich II, and Carafa II. They use a long mash schedule for their beers, about 4 hours.

Edit - of course the proportions change from a Helles to the Celebrator.
4 hours?!? Don't enzymatic conventions stop right around 2 hrs?  Would you carry the same mashing method over to the homebrew level?  I am just asking in the spirit of conversation, not debate... cause I think my understanding must be wrong if Ayinger is using a 4 hour mash.  And that's amazing information by the way that they carry only those 5 malts... is that really the ONLY malts they stock?

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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2016, 02:22:00 AM »
I toured the Ayinger brewery last month. They have 4 barley malts and 1 wheat malt stocked for their beers.

The barley malts are Pils, Munich, CaraMunich II, and Carafa II. They use a long mash schedule for their beers, about 4 hours.

Edit - of course the proportions change from a Helles to the Celebrator.
4 hours?!? Don't enzymatic conventions stop right around 2 hrs?  Would you carry the same mashing method over to the homebrew level?  I am just asking in the spirit of conversation, not debate... cause I think my understanding must be wrong if Ayinger is using a 4 hour mash.  And that's amazing information by the way that they carry only those 5 malts... is that really the ONLY malts they stock?

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The mashes in production German breweries are long. I got the impression at Schönram that they mash in at 50C and step up. Others that have been on the Ayinger tour say 3 to 5 hours. The Dunkel maybe be decocted.

Without the mash profile it is hard to say exactly what they do. I like the results!

Edit - production breweries minimize the malts on hand to streamline the operation and eliminate errors. Sierra Nevada has 2 row, and C60, and some roasted malts.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 02:24:40 AM by hopfenundmalz »
Jeff Rankert
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AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!