Author Topic: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered  (Read 1142 times)

Offline unclebrazzie

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Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« on: April 02, 2015, 09:36:03 AM »
In this thread I've outlined the way in which I've calculated wort densities for a parti-gyle/batch-sparge project I'm going to udnertake on Monday.

Here are the recipes. All that's missing is your thoughts on them :)

Wee Heavy
15 liter
OG 1.090

60% Maris Otter
25% Munich 15L
11% lightly peated malt
4% roasted barley

This is the blend of
  • wort 1 (MO, Munich & roasted barley): 10 liters à 1.108 SG
  • wort 3 (peated malt): 5 liters à 1.055

Yields 15 liters à 1.090.
Boil for 90'
20 IBU of EKG @ t-60'
5 IBU of EKG  @ t-15'
30 g of dried heather tips @ t-15'
.5 g of gale @ t-15'
2-3 bay leaves @ t-15'

then dilute back to 1.090.
Ferment cool (18°C - 64F) with Safale S-04
Possibly drygale in secondary.

I realise 11% of peated malt is polarising and maybe a stupid thing to do. As are the herbal additions. Convince me ;)

Sour Deflowering
upwards of 15 liter
OG 1.054

55% Maris Otter
22% Munich 15L
10% wheat malt
10% flaked oats
3% roasted barley

This is wort 2 from the batch sparge, but instead of just collecting second runnings, I'm remashing with an extra kilo of wheat malt and a kilo of flaked oats. This will bring my pre-boil OG from 1.054 to about 1.067, giving me ample armspace for dilution.

Boil for 70'
8 IBU of saaz @ t-60'
Depending on delivery of my [urlhttp://www.theyeastbay.com/wild-yeast-and-bacteria-products/melange]lacto-blend[/url], ferment etiher with safale S-33 first, then with lacto-blend, or skip the s-33 altogther.
Ferment at room temp either way.
Rack onto fruit as soon as I've decided on which fruit that might become.
Add oak cubes soaked in Pinot Noir.
Forget about it for a year or so.


Looking forward to this :)
All truth is fiction.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2015, 11:45:36 AM »
Forget about it for a year or so.

Yes, well, that's easy for you to say. But I will lie awake, night after night, fearing the day when you will ask me to taste these beers.
Frank P.

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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2015, 12:02:49 PM »
How 'bout this then: I'm asking you now, so you can sleep at night.
In a year's time, I'll cash in on your tremulous "yyyyyyes?"
 8)
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2015, 12:28:54 PM »
less a wee heavy now than a gruit. not a bad thing but in the name of a drinker knowing what to expect when they take a sip. If someone hands me a beer and says here's a wee heavy I will expect something different than what you propose. If, on the other hand, you say here's a peated gruit you'll get MY tremulous okaaaay. But at least I'll know what to expect.
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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2015, 12:53:14 PM »
Ah yes, the style thing as a create-realistic-expectations thing.

Mind, I need to get a whiff of the gale before I decide to add it in this beer. So it might turn out as a peated scottish after all. :)
All truth is fiction.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2015, 01:34:56 PM »
Ah yes, the style thing as a create-realistic-expectations thing.

Mind, I need to get a whiff of the gale before I decide to add it in this beer. So it might turn out as a peated scottish after all. :)

I'd be a lot more likely to want to taste the gruit than the straight peated wee heavy.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"
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Offline kramerog

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Re: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2015, 02:17:58 PM »
Here are my concerns about the remash.  You may be diluting the enyzmes from 1 kg of wheat malt too much in the remash to breakdown the 1 kg of flaked oats.  My gut instinct here is to boil the flaked oats first with enough water for the  side mash, let cool, then add 2 kg of wheat malt, mash and add this side mash to the existing mash (mash 1) with more water as necessary.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2015, 02:22:26 PM »
Here are my concerns about the remash.  You may be diluting the enyzmes from 1 kg of wheat malt too much in the remash to breakdown the 1 kg of flaked oats.  My gut instinct here is to boil the flaked oats first with enough water for the  side mash, let cool, then add 2 kg of wheat malt, mash and add this side mash to the existing mash (mash 1) with more water as necessary.

I've capped mash with a bit of wheat and some raw adjuncts in similar amounts in the past without issue. I think there is still a fair amount of enzyme available in the thick mash. also, I'm pretty sure wheat malt has similar diastatic power to barley.
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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2015, 07:10:24 AM »
Sound advice on the enzymes, but since that second brew is going to be a long slow sour, fermented with a a cocktail of Saccharo, Brett, Lacto and Pedio, my understanding is that it's actually a good thing to have lots of "unfermentables" available. Lacto&Pedio, together with Sacch, will make short work of all the readily available sugars (of which I reckon I'll have about 1.040 SG worth). Any complex sugars and starches are there for Brett to nibble on during the long slow days  in the cellar.
Mike Tonsmeire seems to swear by this concept, so I thought I'd give it a shot.

Also, what morticaixavier said :)

I'm getting my bearings on the peated malt (clueless as to how many ppm it has). It may still turn out differently than my original recipe outlines.
All truth is fiction.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2015, 02:21:51 PM »
I have a hard time imagining peat malt working well in a sour beer. Sour beer can have a mineral component to the flavor as the minerals in the water are more exposed by the dryness and acidity. I would be concerned that the iodine flavor of peat would come across as a very harsh mineral and salt flavor.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2015, 03:14:16 PM »
I have a hard time imagining peat malt working well in a sour beer. Sour beer can have a mineral component to the flavor as the minerals in the water are more exposed by the dryness and acidity. I would be concerned that the iodine flavor of peat would come across as a very harsh mineral and salt flavor.

I have to agree with you wrt to the peat/sour combination.  A quick search gets met this: http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/brau-brothers-bancreagie-26-peated-sour-ale/244749/ - 96% on ratebeer, but the sceptic Belgian in me is not convinced...
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2015, 05:44:49 PM »
I have a hard time imagining peat malt working well in a sour beer. Sour beer can have a mineral component to the flavor as the minerals in the water are more exposed by the dryness and acidity. I would be concerned that the iodine flavor of peat would come across as a very harsh mineral and salt flavor.

I don't think he intends to peat the sour.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"
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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2015, 08:03:44 AM »
I did not intend to peat the sour.  ;D

So: First runnings of the partigyle plus a separate mini mash of 100% peated will yield the scotch wort.

Second runnigns of the partigyle sans peat will yield the wort for the sour.

One day, I'll brew a peated sour though  8)
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2015, 03:36:50 PM »
I have a hard time imagining peat malt working well in a sour beer. Sour beer can have a mineral component to the flavor as the minerals in the water are more exposed by the dryness and acidity. I would be concerned that the iodine flavor of peat would come across as a very harsh mineral and salt flavor.

I don't think he intends to peat the sour.

I clearly missed that the peat malt was going into a separate mash. The fear of a peated sour turned my stomach so quickly I could no longer read properly.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 03:38:40 PM by reverseapachemaster »
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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: Batch-sparged duo: Wee Heavy - Sour Deflowered
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2015, 09:32:01 AM »
It is done.

I got 12 liters of 1.090 wort for wort1 and 3 combined. 11% (est) peated malt did not make for an overly peaty result; my take on it is
1) it's "lightly peated" whisky malt which is actually fairly mild
2) peat is a polarising ingredient. I've heard anything ranging from "shun the peat" to "go 100% peat", all from respectable sources. I'm going with the latter and will one day brew a 100% peated beer. Just because.

I decided on a peaty scottish gruit approach after all, with 30g of EKG at t-60', .5g of of sweet gale, 1 g of dired mugwort, 30g of dried heather and 4 bay leaves at t-15'. Wonderful. Really looking forward to tasting this. Bubbling gently away with S-33 at 18°C.

Wort2 (the second runnings sans peat) is just sparged instead of adding more malt and grains and re-mashing. Wort came out at 1.040. But thinnish and pretty damn dark because of the roasted barley. 10 IBU worth of saaz at t-60', pitched 20 liter with a vial of Sour Mélange (The yeast Bay) and let sit at room temp.  Not much happening here yet.
In time, this'll see a big load of cherries, and some pinot-noir-infused oak.

Second time I've brewed parti-gyle/split-batch and I must say I like it. Takes only slightly longer than one batch and I get two beers out of it. A bit of planning ahead, and things work smoothly. Next time though, I will boost the gravity/body of the second runnings: just sparging makes for a pretty weak wort.


All truth is fiction.
--Don Quichote