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Author Topic: APA - what makes it great  (Read 5852 times)

Offline bboy9000

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APA - what makes it great
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2015, 07:39:20 pm »
I agree the symphony metaphor is a good one as APA is generally balanced.  The style is really variable.  I classify APA as classic, or old school, and new school.  In the classic/old school category are beers such as Sierra Nevada, Boulevard  and Boston Lager (I know it's a lager).  In the new school category are Dale's Pale Ale, Odell 5 Barrel and Great Divide Denver Pale Ale.  The new APA has more hop aroma and flavor but has the malt to back it up so it is still balanced.  I also see some similarity to an amber ale as the three I mentioned as new school have some slight caramel character.

My favorite APA recipe is based off one from Basic Brewing Video.    I use 90% 2-Row and 10% C-60.  It is all late hopped with 2oz. each of Simcoe, Amarillo and Cascade at 15, 5 and flameout respectively.  I've made this beer about 6 times and love it.  I may try swapping some Munich for the 2-Row at some point.  I usually ferment it with Chico but used Pacman a few weeks ago and it subdued the hop flavor.  It came out tasting more like SN than the more assertive pale ale I prefer.  I will always use Chico on it in the future.

Edit:  I just looked on the Odell and Great Divide websites and those have won awards as English Pales.  DPA is even labeled as such.  I don't get it at all. I get more hop aroma from those than I do many other APAs.  This style is confusing.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 07:52:21 pm by bboy9000 »
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Offline bboy9000

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Re: APA - what makes it great
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2015, 07:44:30 pm »

Where do Victory, Biscuit, and Special Roast fit in? Style guidelines say small amounts are appropriate in APA's and don't mention these malts in Amber Ales. But more often than not I get toasty and roasty flavors in commercial Ambers and not so often in APAs.

I can't imagine putting those in an APA that I'd like to drink.  I don't like a toasty flavor in APA.
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Offline Iliff Ave

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Re: APA - what makes it great
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2015, 07:54:54 pm »
I agree the symphony metaphor is a good one as APA is generally balanced.  The style is really variable.  I classify APA as classic, or old school, and new school.  In the classic/old school category are beers such as Sierra Nevada, Boulevard  and Boston Lager (I know it's a lager).  In the new school category are Dale's Pale Ale, Odell 5 Barrel and Great Divide Denver Pale Ale.  The new APA has more hop aroma and flavor but has the malt to back it up so it is still balanced.  I also see some similarity to an amber ale as the three I mentioned as new school have some slight caramel character.

My favorite APA recipe is based off one from Basic Brewing Video.    I use 90% 2-Row and 10% C-60.  It is all late hopped with 2oz. each of Simcoe, Amarillo and Cascade at 15, 5 and flameout respectively.  I've made this beer about 6 times and love it.  I may try swapping some Munich for the 2-Row at some point.  I usually ferment it with Chico but used Pacman a few weeks ago and it subdued the hop flavor.  It came out tasting more like SN than the more assertive pale ale I prefer.  I will always use Chico on it in the future.

Edit:  I just looked on the Odell and Great Divide websites and those have won awards as English Pales.  DPA is even labeled as such.  I don't get it at all. I get more hop aroma from those than I do many other APAs.  This style is confusing.

Don't wanna be a dick but denver pale ale is actually an English style pale ale. I wouldn't consider it a new school variety at all considering it has won medals at gabf as English style...
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 07:56:41 pm by goschman »
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Offline tommymorris

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APA - what makes it great
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2015, 07:55:58 pm »

Where do Victory, Biscuit, and Special Roast fit in? Style guidelines say small amounts are appropriate in APA's and don't mention these malts in Amber Ales. But more often than not I get toasty and roasty flavors in commercial Ambers and not so often in APAs.

I can't imagine putting those in an APA that I'd like to drink.  I don't like a toasty flavor in APA.
Yeah. When I wrote that I was going to mention the line between ambers and APAs. The style guidelines say they overlap.

Offline bboy9000

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Re: APA - what makes it great
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2015, 08:22:43 pm »

I agree the symphony metaphor is a good one as APA is generally balanced.  The style is really variable.  I classify APA as classic, or old school, and new school.  In the classic/old school category are beers such as Sierra Nevada, Boulevard  and Boston Lager (I know it's a lager).  In the new school category are Dale's Pale Ale, Odell 5 Barrel and Great Divide Denver Pale Ale.  The new APA has more hop aroma and flavor but has the malt to back it up so it is still balanced.  I also see some similarity to an amber ale as the three I mentioned as new school have some slight caramel character.

My favorite APA recipe is based off one from Basic Brewing Video.    I use 90% 2-Row and 10% C-60.  It is all late hopped with 2oz. each of Simcoe, Amarillo and Cascade at 15, 5 and flameout respectively.  I've made this beer about 6 times and love it.  I may try swapping some Munich for the 2-Row at some point.  I usually ferment it with Chico but used Pacman a few weeks ago and it subdued the hop flavor.  It came out tasting more like SN than the more assertive pale ale I prefer.  I will always use Chico on it in the future.

Edit:  I just looked on the Odell and Great Divide websites and those have won awards as English Pales.  DPA is even labeled as such.  I don't get it at all. I get more hop aroma from those than I do many other APAs.  This style is confusing.

Don't wanna be a dick but denver pale ale is actually an English style pale ale. I wouldn't consider it a new school variety at all considering it has won medals at gabf as English style...

Too late- I already caught that and noted it.  I was thinking of it as an APA because I get more hop aroma from it than SN and Boulevard.
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: APA - what makes it great
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2015, 06:13:16 am »
I think that shows with how similar American and British "Standard" pale ales really are. That may not be how the style is defined in some circles, but that's how I see it.
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Offline Iliff Ave

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Re: APA - what makes it great
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2015, 07:52:59 am »
I love a good pale ale but think that applying guidelines to most American styles is difficult. You can have a maltier, bitter APA or a lighter, crisp, super aromatic APA that wouldn't seem to belong in the same category. I would never attempt to enter that category in a competition...way too subjective
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Offline Iliff Ave

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Re: APA - what makes it great
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2015, 07:56:25 am »

Edit:  I just looked on the Odell and Great Divide websites and those have won awards as English Pales.  DPA is even labeled as such.  I don't get it at all. I get more hop aroma from those than I do many other APAs.  This style is confusing.

Don't wanna be a dick but denver pale ale is actually an English style pale ale. I wouldn't consider it a new school variety at all considering it has won medals at gabf as English style...

Too late- I already caught that and noted it.  I was thinking of it as an APA because I get more hop aroma from it than SN and Boulevard.

Didn't see your edit. Sorry about that.
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Offline chezteth

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Re: APA - what makes it great
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2015, 05:00:18 pm »
In general, that is the challenge of beer judging. Understanding the balance of the particular style and being able to assign an appropriate score. I agree that APA is difficult. Unfortunately, what a brewery calls their beer doesn't mean it fits that style best.

Offline erockrph

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Re: APA - what makes it great
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2015, 08:31:25 pm »
APA seems all over the board lately. Once upon a time it was SNPA almost by definition. Now there's XPA, session IPA, and even beers still billed as APA have drifted pretty far in general to where IPA once was. APA is all over the map to the point where I'm not sure what even is a current top example of the style.

Hopefully the new BJCP guidelines will draw a better line of what falls where. I don't envy those having to judge this style right now.
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Offline bboy9000

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Re: APA - what makes it great
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2015, 10:29:34 pm »
One of my other favorite APA's is Cardinal APA fro Nebraska Brewing.  It's a newer, aggressively late hopped ale with solid malt as well.  It's won awards as an American and English Pale.  This is one case where style guidelines suck.  Honestly as long as it tastes good, who cares?  I know that doesn't help the OP.  One might assume judges would be looking for that classic SN pale ale profile as it is the first example in the style guidelines but I doubt that is actually the case.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: APA - what makes it great
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2015, 01:32:14 am »
One of my other favorite APA's is Cardinal APA fro Nebraska Brewing.  It's a newer, aggressively late hopped ale with solid malt as well.  It's won awards as an American and English Pale.  This is one case where style guidelines suck.  Honestly as long as it tastes good, who cares?  I know that doesn't help the OP.  One might assume judges would be looking for that classic SN pale ale profile as it is the first example in the style guidelines but I doubt that is actually the case.
I brought home a Nebraska beer from Best of Craft. Hop Anomoly I think, the barrel aged version. If I recall properly its a Belgian IPA, maybe? Pretty darn good though.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: APA - what makes it great
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2015, 05:53:21 am »
APA seems all over the board lately. Once upon a time it was SNPA almost by definition. Now there's XPA, session IPA, and even beers still billed as APA have drifted pretty far in general to where IPA once was. APA is all over the map to the point where I'm not sure what even is a current top example of the style.

Hopefully the new BJCP guidelines will draw a better line of what falls where. I don't envy those having to judge this style right now.

+1.  All over the place right now. And then in terms of regional differences, 'West Coast' style ales have sort of blurred the lines even more.
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Re: APA - what makes it great
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2015, 10:31:17 am »
In my humble opinion, an APA is not an APA unless it uses American base malt and American hops.  The creators of the style did not set out to create a new style of beer.  They were just brewing pale ale with ingredients that they could obtain.  The result was APA.  Jack McAuliff stated that the reason why he used Cascade in New Albion Ale is because that was the only hop that the hop brokers would sell him.

Offline Stevie

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APA - what makes it great
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2015, 10:45:36 am »
In my humble opinion, an APA is not an APA unless it uses American base malt and American hops.  The creators of the style did not set out to create a new style of beer.  They were just brewing pale ale with ingredients that they could obtain.  The result was APA.  Jack McAuliff stated that the reason why he used Cascade in New Albion Ale is because that was the only hop that the hop brokers would sell him.
I thought ken grossman said that, either way, it is what made cascade the craft hop

Edit. - never mind. Just got my founders confused. This of course is why the original new Albion ale was a SMaSH beer.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 10:59:38 am by Steve in TX »