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Author Topic: First Recipe design  (Read 4706 times)

Offline majorvices

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2015, 05:35:18 am »
Yeah, west Coast IPAs are "unbalanced" compared to east Coast IPAs the way a 1970 GTO "Judge" is unbalanced next to a 1981 Ford Fairmont.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2015, 05:40:57 am »
Yeah, west Coast IPAs are "unbalanced" compared to east Coast IPAs the way a 1970 GTO "Judge" is unbalanced next to a 1981 Ford Fairmont.

Awesome.  ;D    Obviously, +1.   
Jon H.

Offline Stevie

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2015, 05:47:18 am »

Yeah, west Coast IPAs are "unbalanced" compared to east Coast IPAs the way a 1970 GTO "Judge" is unbalanced next to a 1981 Ford Fairmont.
Awesome.

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2015, 08:33:33 am »
Yeah, west Coast IPAs are "unbalanced" compared to east Coast IPAs the way a 1970 GTO "Judge" is unbalanced next to a 1981 Ford Fairmont.

That's one way to look at it.  All one tastes in West Coast IPA is hops.  That's an unbalanced beer in my book.


Offline denny

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2015, 09:28:36 am »
I find most West Coast-style IPAs to be unbalanced aroma/flavor hop forward beers.

You say that like it's a bad thing.  IMO, most East Coast IPAs are unbalanced in regard to malt.  Just a question of how you look at it.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2015, 09:29:46 am »
I find most West Coast-style IPAs to be unbalanced aroma/flavor hop forward beers.

You say that like it's a bad thing.  IMO, most East Coast IPAs are unbalanced in regard to malt.  Just a question of how you look at it.

Agreed. 

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2015, 10:46:44 am »
I find most West Coast-style IPAs to be unbalanced aroma/flavor hop forward beers.

You say that like it's a bad thing.  IMO, most East Coast IPAs are unbalanced in regard to malt.  Just a question of how you look at it.

Agreed. 

+2.  Too malty/crystally/underattenuated in IPA is still unbalanced.  I like a firm malt base for IPA, but as for West Coast IPAs being "aroma and flavor hop forward" - I agree. That's what I shoot for.
Jon H.

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2015, 12:46:27 pm »
Most beer drinkers in the mid-western and western states have more than likely only had Harpoon IPA, which is far from the gold standard for post-Ballantine East Coast IPA.  Real post-Ballantine East Coast IPA is almost extinct because the breweries that brewed it went out of business.  Most of these breweries never made it past a tri-state area because it was much more difficult to break into the distribution channel during the early days of the craft beer movement than it is today.

Let me give you an example of an East Coast-style IPA that most forum members have more than likely never consumed; namely, the higher gravity version of Oxford Real Ale.  This beer was an amazing East Coast IPA that was only available on tap, and sporadically at that.  It was brewed by the defunct Oxford Brewing Company (known as the British Brewing Company when Steve Parkes was brewmaster).  Anyone who attended NHC 1995 had the opportunity to drink Oxford IPA.   Neither of these beers was remotely close to the abomination known as Harpoon IPA.  Wild Goose IPA, Sam Middleton's Pale Ale, and Red Feather Pale were first class examples post-Ballantine East Coast IPA and East Coast Pale Ale.  I would put these beers up against any beer in their respective classes that is available today. 

Brooklyn East IPA is a modern take on early post-Ballantine East Coast IPA.  I would not call it a flavorless, sickly sweet brew. Brooklyn East IPA uses the classic British base malt plus wheat and citrus-accented British hop combination that made East Coast IPA an immediate hit.

Style: India Pale Ale
Malts: British Pale Ale Malts from East Anglia
Additions: Contains wheat
Hops: East Kent Golding, Willamette, Northdown, Centennial
Alcohol by Volume:  6.9%
IBUs: 47
Original Gravity:  17° Plato

With an apparent attenuation of 75%, I would not call this beer underattenuated.

A modern and interesting take on East Coast IPA is a beer that Heavy Seas classifies as an Imperial Extra Special Bitter.  The beer is called Winter Storm.  It's basically the East Coast IPA formula applied to British-style strong bitter, including the British practice of using of chocolate malt for color.

Style: Imperial Extra Special Bitter (ESB)
ABV: 7.5%
IBUs: 50
Availability: October-December
Hops: Warrior, UK Goldings, UK Fuggles, Cascade, Centennial
Malts: 2-row, Crystal, Caramalt, Chocolate Malt

« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 02:50:52 pm by S. cerevisiae »

Offline majorvices

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2015, 12:49:00 pm »
I know a lot of East Coast IPAs that are technically west Coast IPA to style.

Offline pete b

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2015, 01:07:04 pm »
I find most West Coast-style IPAs to be unbalanced aroma/flavor hop forward beers.

You say that like it's a bad thing.  IMO, most East Coast IPAs are unbalanced in regard to malt.  Just a question of how you look at it.
I agree that West Coast IPA's are unbalanced hop forward beers. And sometimes that's what I want so I'm glad its a thing.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2015, 01:25:38 pm »
The whole idea of balance in IPA is subjective and kind of a head scratcher to me anyway.  The 2008 BJCP guidelines for AIPA describe hop aroma as "prominent to intense" and hop flavor as "medium to high". I don't by any means want a glass of hop tea for an IPA, but I also don't agree that it should be an overly crystally dry hopped American Amber. Every style of beer has its own version of balance relative to its characteristics.
Jon H.

Offline pete b

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2015, 01:50:53 pm »
The whole idea of balance in IPA is subjective and kind of a head scratcher to me anyway.  The 2008 BJCP guidelines for AIPA describe hop aroma as "prominent to intense" and hop flavor as "medium to high". I don't by any means want a glass of hop tea for an IPA, but I also don't agree that it should be an overly crystally dry hopped American Amber. Every style of beer has its own version of balance relative to its characteristics.
And a good very hoppy West Coast IPA is actually balanced in that there needs to be enough malt to carry that much flavor. You don't perceive it as "malty" but you sure do notice the lack of it in one of those god awful "session" IPA's. (Another chance for me to trash those 8))
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2015, 01:53:46 pm »
The whole idea of balance in IPA is subjective and kind of a head scratcher to me anyway.  The 2008 BJCP guidelines for AIPA describe hop aroma as "prominent to intense" and hop flavor as "medium to high". I don't by any means want a glass of hop tea for an IPA, but I also don't agree that it should be an overly crystally dry hopped American Amber. Every style of beer has its own version of balance relative to its characteristics.
And a good very hoppy West Coast IPA is actually balanced in that there needs to be enough malt to carry that much flavor. You don't perceive it as "malty" but you sure do notice the lack of it in one of those god awful "session" IPA's. (Another chance for me to trash those 8))

Yep.  That's the real problem with most of those - not enough OG/body to support the hops.
Jon H.

Offline denny

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2015, 01:54:11 pm »
More proof of subjectivity...I consider the Brooklyn East IPA sickly sweet.  That doesn't mean it's bad...simply that it's not what I want to drink.
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Offline Stevie

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Re: First Recipe design
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2015, 02:00:25 pm »
Sorry beginnerbrewer. Going off rails happens.


When I think East Coast IPA, I think Harpoon and Brooklyn. I do not like either of those beers. I don't like them because, in my opinion, they are overly malty and hoppy beers.


Mark V is describing what traditionally would have been an East Coast IPA, but in his opinion no longer, or barely, exists today.


Do you have any commercial examples you are looking to for inspiration?