[unclebrazzie]

I can very much testify from personal experience that if there is any single beer style where peated malt would be considered wildly off-the-mark, it would be Belgian Scotch (if such a style would be at all recognised by the BJCP).
Belgians like balance, remember? We like balance so much that we diss beers if they so much as hint of flavour.

[reverseapachemaster]

At the BJCP reception, we also learned that Kentucky Common Beer did not use a sour mash.

There was even a significant amount of debate on the BJCP forums on the style guidelines for it.

It wasn't really debate.  None of the new guideline threads really involved much debate.  They were all like, "This is what the Masters have determined, this is the way it's going to be, you don't like it then that's just too bad."

My opinion of the BJCP is reduced by a few notches.  I still think BJCP is useful to a point.  But I could do without the one-party politics and the one-upmanship by some of the highest ranking members.   

This is how I saw it and this is how a lot of other people saw it, too. There are a lot of problems with the 2014 guidelines but conversations about improving them couldn't be had because everybody got cut off at the knees for disagreeing with the way the draft was written.

The BJCP has made its decisions about how it will proceed and most of us will be subjected to that as competitors and judges because there is little choice. Some people have written off BJCP competitions in certain styles, such as saison, brett and sour beers, because the way the BJCP has structured those styles in the new guidelines and the way they are approached for certification makes judging them too inconsistent to make it worth the effort.

[toby]

Some people have written off BJCP competitions in certain styles, such as saison, brett and sour beers, because the way the BJCP has structured those styles in the new guidelines and the way they are approached for certification makes judging them too inconsistent to make it worth the effort.

My own experience for brett/sours/wilds is practically the opposite.  I know of quite a few people that are chomping at the bit for the new guidelines since they don't want to just throw their brett, sour, and/or wild ales into 23 due to bad experiences there.

[klickitat jim]

Some people have written off BJCP competitions in certain styles, such as saison, brett and sour beers, because the way the BJCP has structured those styles in the new guidelines and the way they are approached for certification makes judging them too inconsistent to make it worth the effort.

My own experience for brett/sours/wilds is practically the opposite.  I know of quite a few people that are chomping at the bit for the new guidelines since they don't want to just throw their brett, sour, and/or wild ales into 23 due to bad experiences there.

I'm one of those. I submitted what will fit into the new American mixed fermentation sour, as a straight lambic this year. It got a 30/30 with the detracters being too much head, not enough barn yard, not cheesy enough hops, too much carbonation. We'll see how the same recipe does next year in the new category.

[Stevie]

I thought cheese is not desired.

[klickitat jim]

I thought cheese is not desired.

I know I dont desire it. I scored a bottle of Boon a while back. It must have been an old old bottle. I reeked of toe jam and blew cheese. Absolutely undrinkable, as in it wouldn't stay down. Boomerang effect to the max. I wonder sometimes if some judges sample those dead commercial examples and think thats what it should be?

But my point in commenting is not to cry about my score or what a judge wrote, but just to point out that sours need more catagories and the new expanded guidelines will help that. Sours are really growing in the commercial world and I expect that to continue.

[Stevie]

I looked and the guideline specifically say cheese is undesirable. Maybe this person has a very good pallet and kindergarten reading skills.

[reverseapachemaster]

Some people have written off BJCP competitions in certain styles, such as saison, brett and sour beers, because the way the BJCP has structured those styles in the new guidelines and the way they are approached for certification makes judging them too inconsistent to make it worth the effort.

My own experience for brett/sours/wilds is practically the opposite.  I know of quite a few people that are chomping at the bit for the new guidelines since they don't want to just throw their brett, sour, and/or wild ales into 23 due to bad experiences there.

I'm not saying some of the changes aren't an improvement but the new styles bring along a number of problems of their own. Saison is a pretty good example. The new style guideline recognizes that saisons might be all over the place but squeezes them into the same classification where it is highly likely that, like most styles, the biggest or most exotic beer wins. So here we have a style that is incredibly diverse lumped together but then IPA is so splintered that an entrant is free to basically make up an IPA style.

The bigger problem with the BJCP is that these styles tend to be under-taught to judges (see Jim's comments) so much so that many BJCP training courses barely address them and they are barely tested. The stories of horrible judging in these styles are endless. I've personally seen judges say they don't like sour beers and score down sour beers because they just didn't like it (in cat. 23) or give the best scores to the least sour beers in the flight out of personal preferences. It seems too accepted and although these complaints have been raised to BJCP leadership it doesn't seem like they care.

[dmtaylor]

The bigger problem with the BJCP is that these styles tend to be under-taught to judges (see Jim's comments) so much so that many BJCP training courses barely address them and they are barely tested. The stories of horrible judging in these styles are endless. I've personally seen judges say they don't like sour beers and score down sour beers because they just didn't like it (in cat. 23) or give the best scores to the least sour beers in the flight out of personal preferences. It seems too accepted and although these complaints have been raised to BJCP leadership it doesn't seem like they care.

Judges are human, and reality is that there will always be some judges who suck, and there will always be organizers who don't care about pairing judges with style preferences appropriately, etc.  I have issues with how BJCP does some things, but in their defense, they can't resolve world hunger either, whether they care or not.  What they CAN do is establish style guidelines and competition guidance that makes sense to a majority of people.  But if they refuse to listen to a majority of people, then majority doesn't rule, and THAT, I have a problem with.

[klickitat jim]

David,
Its a universal truth that government gets its power from the consent of the governed, or apathy of the governed, or by forcing the governed into submission. Since the BJCP isnt armed, its either consent or apathy.  So I applaud your speaking up. I personally think they are heading in the right direction but it may be slow going for a bit. I really can't imagine how much work goes into running a huge group of volunteers who, by the nature of it, have very strong opinions.

[Hooper]

Maybe I should flush my lb of peated malt...sounds like it could be trouble...

[klickitat jim]

Maybe I should flush my lb of peated malt...sounds like it could be trouble...

Ya. All you have to do is mention peat smoked malt and before you know it a mob has formed with torches and pitchforks

[unclebrazzie]

Reporting for duty.
11% of "lightly peated" whiskey malt only shows up in the form of smoke. No peat, no exhaust pipes, no bog marshes, no LaBrea Tar Pit Fumes. Just mild saussagey smoke.

Mind, at 5ppm, I'd be hesitant to even call it "peated", but that's what the label said.

Coming back on-topic, I have no particular opinion on the BJCP. Except if they think peat has no place in beer.