Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: BS decoction setting  (Read 1520 times)

Offline jeffy

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4222
  • Tampa, Fl
BS decoction setting
« on: April 13, 2015, 08:41:59 am »
I brewed a Dunkel yesterday using 100% Wyerman Munich II.  When I entered it into BeerSmith it showed it coming out too pale in color, so I decided rather than go back to the store and get some roast malt for color adjustment, I'd do a decoction or two.  I had the time and I'm one of those weird brewers who thinks it adds to the beer.  When I entered this into BS it did not change the color setting, even with two decoctions.  Anyone else run into this?  I know the wort will be darker because of the decoctions, but I have no idea other than by looking, how much.  I'm fine with the result, but wondered why there would be no change in the program.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
Homebrewing since 1990
AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member
BJCP judge since 1995

Offline dkfick

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1054
Re: BS decoction setting
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2015, 09:16:22 am »
I don't think BeerSmith accounts for decoction (or boiling) adding any color to the beer.  It's probably because it's not really been quantified as of yet... If you can come up with a reliable model I'm sure Brad would add it ;-)
BJCP A0936 National Beer Judge and Mead Judge
Cicerone Certified Beer Server
AHA Member
CRAFT Homebrew Club
Sons of Liberty Homebrew Club
HBT "mors"

Offline Jimmy K

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 3643
  • Delaware
Re: BS decoction setting
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2015, 09:44:58 am »
Perhaps it's too unpredictable because of different decoction techniques, schedules, equipment, stirring effectiveness, etc.
Delmarva United Homebrewers - President by inverse coup - former president ousted himself.
AHA Member since 2006
BJCP Certified: B0958

Offline jeffy

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4222
  • Tampa, Fl
Re: BS decoction setting
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2015, 09:47:04 am »
That's what I figured, but it never has stopped him before.  You have assume at least a little darkening, so I'd expect a guess built into the program.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
Homebrewing since 1990
AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member
BJCP judge since 1995

Offline beersk

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 3721
  • In the night!
Re: BS decoction setting
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2015, 07:03:31 am »
I'm not sure it really does add that much color...have you honestly noticed a color difference between a non-decocted and decocted beer? Kai did a couple decoction videos showing color differences. What I took from it is that it doesn't add much, if any, color.
I wouldn't believe for a second that a beer like Ayinger Altbarisch dunkel is 100% Munich II. There has to be some caramunich/debittered black malt in there for color.
Jesse

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8604
Re: BS decoction setting
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2015, 07:28:09 am »
I'm not sure it really does add that much color...have you honestly noticed a color difference between a non-decocted and decocted beer? Kai did a couple decoction videos showing color differences. What I took from it is that it doesn't add much, if any, color.
I wouldn't believe for a second that a beer like Ayinger Altbarisch dunkel is 100% Munich II. There has to be some caramunich/debittered black malt in there for color.
There's nothing stopping them from roasting a portion of that munich before it goes in the mash. And can still say its 100%

Offline brewday

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
Re: BS decoction setting
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2015, 08:01:00 am »
I'm not sure it really does add that much color...have you honestly noticed a color difference between a non-decocted and decocted beer? Kai did a couple decoction videos showing color differences. What I took from it is that it doesn't add much, if any, color.
I wouldn't believe for a second that a beer like Ayinger Altbarisch dunkel is 100% Munich II. There has to be some caramunich/debittered black malt in there for color.
There's nothing stopping them from roasting a portion of that munich before it goes in the mash. And can still say its 100%

I thought I had read it was brewed with several malts, including dark???  Maybe I'm crazy.  As for decoction and color, I do notice quite a difference between my decocted vs not decocted Hefes and Berliners.

Offline jeffy

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4222
  • Tampa, Fl
Re: BS decoction setting
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2015, 08:03:01 am »
I'm not sure it really does add that much color...have you honestly noticed a color difference between a non-decocted and decocted beer? Kai did a couple decoction videos showing color differences. What I took from it is that it doesn't add much, if any, color.
I wouldn't believe for a second that a beer like Ayinger Altbarisch dunkel is 100% Munich II. There has to be some caramunich/debittered black malt in there for color.

When boiling a decoction you can actually see the color darken, especially so when adding it back to the main mash. 
I did one decoction of thick mash to get from 148F to 158F, then took an all liquid decoction and boiled it for 20 minutes to concentrate it before adding back to mash out.  I'm pretty sure I got some color and some more malt flavors, sort of like boiling the first runnings for a Strong Scotch Ale.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
Homebrewing since 1990
AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member
BJCP judge since 1995

Offline brewday

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
Re: BS decoction setting
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2015, 08:21:01 am »
I'm not sure it really does add that much color...have you honestly noticed a color difference between a non-decocted and decocted beer? Kai did a couple decoction videos showing color differences. What I took from it is that it doesn't add much, if any, color.
I wouldn't believe for a second that a beer like Ayinger Altbarisch dunkel is 100% Munich II. There has to be some caramunich/debittered black malt in there for color.

When boiling a decoction you can actually see the color darken, especially so when adding it back to the main mash. 
I did one decoction of thick mash to get from 148F to 158F, then took an all liquid decoction and boiled it for 20 minutes to concentrate it before adding back to mash out.  I'm pretty sure I got some color and some more malt flavors, sort of like boiling the first runnings for a Strong Scotch Ale.

+1

I think you can control the color to a degree based on length and vigor of boil.  Maybe that's why BS left it out.

Offline reverseapachemaster

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 3778
    • Brain Sparging on Brewing
Re: BS decoction setting
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2015, 08:36:14 am »
I think most people would say decoction is already a BS setting.
Heck yeah I blog about homebrewing: Brain Sparging on Brewing