Author Topic: NHC entry counts  (Read 1142 times)

Offline ScottBeh

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NHC entry counts
« on: April 12, 2015, 12:52:06 PM »
2015 is my first NHC competition entry, previous years I got too frustrated trying to figure out how to even enter.  Way easier this go round.  So there are 12 judging centers and gold silver bronze are the only ones to advance? so that makes 36 entries only in each category for the final round? Looking at 2014 results and entry counts per category there are a lot more than 36.  Is it different this year or where am I wrong?

Offline jeff67

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Re: NHC entry counts
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2015, 03:33:03 PM »
The numbers you see listed in the final round are the total entries in the category for the entire competition.

Offline ScottBeh

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Re: NHC entry counts
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2015, 03:53:09 PM »
OK thank you.  I guess those numbers are the total entries per category for rounds 1 & 2. I was thinking round 2 was like a separate comp.

Offline dkfick

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Re: NHC entry counts
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2015, 12:58:38 PM »
round 2 is like a separate comp.  When you are looking at the results page for 2014 you select the year (2014) then there is a drop down list where you can select the final round OR one of the individual sites for the first round. 

EDIT: I think I see what you meant.  Yeah they total up the entry counts for the final round results from all teh first round competitions it seems.  But in reality there are those ~36 entries in each category for the final round of judging.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 01:00:48 PM by dkfick »
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Offline ScottBeh

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Re: NHC entry counts
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2015, 03:51:47 PM »
I was confused seeing several hundred entries per category,  reality is if there are 12 entry in round 1 in your category and 36 in the final and you make it, your really only competing against 46 others.

Offline dkfick

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Re: NHC entry counts
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2015, 04:16:11 PM »
I was confused seeing several hundred entries per category,  reality is if there are 12 entry in round 1 in your category and 36 in the final and you make it, your really only competing against 46 others.

Technically that's true.  The winning beers only beat out their 1st round competition center category beers and then the final round category beers... but the beers they beat out in the final round beat out all the other entries in that category from all the other 1st round centers.
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Offline jeffy

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Re: NHC entry counts
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2015, 04:20:31 PM »
I was confused seeing several hundred entries per category,  reality is if there are 12 entry in round 1 in your category and 36 in the final and you make it, your really only competing against 46 others.

Technically that's true.  The winning beers only beat out their 1st round competition center category beers and then the final round category beers... but the beers they beat out in the final round beat out all the other entries in that category from all the other 1st round centers.

You have to look at it as if the final round is a best of show of all the winners from the first rounds.
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Offline toby

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Re: NHC entry counts
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2015, 05:02:10 PM »
You have to look at it as if the final round is a best of show of all the winners from the first rounds.
Or a tournament.  Technically, the winner of a 64 team single-elimination tournament only beat 6 other teams, but people seem to go mad for that sort of thing anyway.  You effectively get credit for the teams that those teams beat too.

Offline ScottBeh

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Re: NHC entry counts
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2015, 10:54:37 PM »
It would be interesting to send just one category of entries from one judging center when done to another and see if the same 3 placed. 

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: NHC entry counts
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2015, 11:19:59 PM »
You have to look at it as if the final round is a best of show of all the winners from the first rounds.
Or a tournament.  Technically, the winner of a 64 team single-elimination tournament only beat 6 other teams, but people seem to go mad for that sort of thing anyway.  You effectively get credit for the teams that those teams beat too.
I like the analogy but that teams have good days bad days, and in contact sports at least,  there can be key individual matchups that result in big play upsets. Beer is pretty much mano a mano between two relatively stable opponents. For example, a 30 can advance with gold but then face a slew of 45s... In that vein, its like a touney between different leagues.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: NHC entry counts
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2015, 11:24:38 PM »
It would be interesting to send just one category of entries from one judging center when done to another and see if the same 3 placed.
My bet would be that a different set of judges would rarely pick the same trifecta. Though a win place show bet would have  tighter odds. I imagine that a lengthy debate is fairly common over gold and silver. So in many cases it could easily go either way, and in some cases even three way ties.

Offline jeffy

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Re: NHC entry counts
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2015, 11:37:31 PM »
It would be interesting to send just one category of entries from one judging center when done to another and see if the same 3 placed.
My bet would be that a different set of judges would rarely pick the same trifecta. Though a win place show bet would have  tighter odds. I imagine that a lengthy debate is fairly common over gold and silver. So in many cases it could easily go either way, and in some cases even three way ties.

Many years ago I had a medal in the finals with a mead that was bronze in one of the regionals, so it really does depend on the judge pool.  I also had a gold in the finals once that only scored 34 in the final round.  I actually contacted one of the judges to confirm it.  He said it was deserving.
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Offline ScottBeh

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Re: NHC entry counts
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2015, 11:54:12 PM »
Its the whole subjective thing that's part of every comp I guess.  What I was thinking is the guy who makes a fantastic beer with one ingredient, lets say grapefruit,  and gets a pair of judges who don't happen to care for it.  The next 2 judges might have very different tastes.

Offline toby

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Re: NHC entry counts
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2015, 03:05:11 PM »
It would be interesting to send just one category of entries from one judging center when done to another and see if the same 3 placed.
I would highly doubt it since, IME, even the exact same beer won't score the same necessarily in separate venues.  I had a beer in NHC last year that scored a 27 in Seattle that scored in the 40s a couple months later in Houston and Biloxi.  I'm sure there are obviously going to be variables in handling and transportation that will play into it.  I'm of the opinion lately that those play more into it than we think.  I've tasted the same beer in a comp and later the same week that were surprisingly different.  I've also judged a beer that I was the first one to offer to kick it out of BOS because the two bottles were that different.
I like the analogy but that teams have good days bad days, and in contact sports at least,  there can be key individual matchups that result in big play upsets. Beer is pretty much mano a mano between two relatively stable opponents. For example, a 30 can advance with gold but then face a slew of 45s... In that vein, its like a touney between different leagues.
Isn't that in some ways what the NCAA tournament is?  The stability is somewhat relative.  As entrants, we try to control as much as we can, but since beer is somewhat of a living organism, there are going to be variations even within the same batch sometimes that get amplified by differences in handling or storage.

Offline brewmasterbrad

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Re: NHC entry counts
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2015, 04:54:37 PM »
2015 is my first NHC competition entry, previous years I got too frustrated trying to figure out how to even enter.  Way easier this go round.  So there are 12 judging centers and gold silver bronze are the only ones to advance? so that makes 36 entries only in each category for the final round? Looking at 2014 results and entry counts per category there are a lot more than 36.  Is it different this year or where am I wrong?

Don't get confused between getting a gold, silver, or bronze certificate and finishing in the top three. The AHA awards certificates to beers that meet certain scoring thresholds, but that does not mean that those beers advance to the second round. Only the top three beers in each category advance to the second round. The certificates are kind of like participation trophies in Little League.