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Author Topic: Another efficiency thread  (Read 5155 times)

Offline mainebrewer

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Re: Another efficiency thread
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2015, 04:53:03 am »
I find that when I do beers above 70 points that my mash efficiency drops by a few points and when I do small beers, ~40 points, my efficiency goes up by a few points. But since I know it, I can adjust for it.
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Offline a10t2

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Re: Another efficiency thread
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2015, 10:27:23 pm »
I disagree based upon my own experience batch sparging a very large number of different recipes from 1.032 mild ales to 1.068 IPAs.  My efficiency is super-consistent at 78%.

Then you're getting higher conversion efficiency for larger beers, or somehow changing the absorption ratio (dead space, most likely). Lauter efficiency for a batch sparge is just algebra.
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Offline johnnyb

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Re: Another efficiency thread
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2015, 05:50:42 am »
I disagree based upon my own experience batch sparging a very large number of different recipes from 1.032 mild ales to 1.068 IPAs.  My efficiency is super-consistent at 78%.

Then you're getting higher conversion efficiency for larger beers, or somehow changing the absorption ratio (dead space, most likely). Lauter efficiency for a batch sparge is just algebra.

Are your comments based on measuring efficiency at the end of the process (based on gravity points at the end of the boil) or based on gravity points preboil?

It seems like people might be using two different measures of efficiency in this thread.

Offline a10t2

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Re: Another efficiency thread
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2015, 09:40:04 am »
Are your comments based on measuring efficiency at the end of the process (based on gravity points at the end of the boil) or based on gravity points preboil?

Those would be the same. Sugars aren't created or destroyed in the boil, only concentrated.
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Offline johnnyb

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Re: Another efficiency thread
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2015, 05:34:36 pm »
Are your comments based on measuring efficiency at the end of the process (based on gravity points at the end of the boil) or based on gravity points preboil?

Those would be the same. Sugars aren't created or destroyed in the boil, only concentrated.

I understand that.

But some people measure efficiency by the volume that makes it into the fermenter. So basically points that make it to the fermenter divided by theoretical points in the grain bill.

But that measure of efficiency doesn't do me much good, because I lose wort to different things at different volumes depending on the beer I'm brewing. For example, a heavily hopped IPA will have worse efficiency than something like a simple wheat ale because I'm going to lose a ton more wort soaked up in hops.

I prefer to measure the efficiency out of the mash, and from there I can calculate my recipes because I account for all those other losses in my spreadsheet by increasing the volume of wort required preboil.

My mash efficiency remains fairly constant near 75%. It does vary a little because my mashtun loss is constant, yet my preboil wort volume varies by recipe as described above. Recipes that require less wort will show a slightly lower efficiency preboil, because that mashtun loss is a greater percentage of the collected wort.

I should tweak my spreadsheet to account for that, and I'm sure the efficiency would hardly move much at all unless I changed my crush or something.

Offline greatplainsbrewer

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Re: Another efficiency thread
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2015, 06:34:48 am »
Sharper people than I have already replied so take this with a grain of salt.

In addition to crush (already mentioned) anecdotally pH and grist ratio seem to affect my efficiency.  For me getting my pH under control helped.  In addition a water to grist ratio around 1.75 qts/ lb seems to be a sweet spot.

In the past if I get efficiency numbers that are out of whack, I first check my measurements.

This is all in a 48 qt cooler using a toilet braid and batch sparging
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 07:30:09 am by greatplainsbrewer »

Offline colin.m.hammond

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Re: Another efficiency thread
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2015, 03:26:34 pm »
Are your comments based on measuring efficiency at the end of the process (based on gravity points at the end of the boil) or based on gravity points preboil?

Those would be the same. Sugars aren't created or destroyed in the boil, only concentrated.

I understand that.

But some people measure efficiency by the volume that makes it into the fermenter. So basically points that make it to the fermenter divided by theoretical points in the grain bill.

But that measure of efficiency doesn't do me much good, because I lose wort to different things at different volumes depending on the beer I'm brewing. For example, a heavily hopped IPA will have worse efficiency than something like a simple wheat ale because I'm going to lose a ton more wort soaked up in hops.

I prefer to measure the efficiency out of the mash, and from there I can calculate my recipes because I account for all those other losses in my spreadsheet by increasing the volume of wort required preboil.

My mash efficiency remains fairly constant near 75%. It does vary a little because my mashtun loss is constant, yet my preboil wort volume varies by recipe as described above. Recipes that require less wort will show a slightly lower efficiency preboil, because that mashtun loss is a greater percentage of the collected wort.

I should tweak my spreadsheet to account for that, and I'm sure the efficiency would hardly move much at all unless I changed my crush or something.
My last batch I got 60 % efficiency and that was an improvement for me. But I am measuring efficiency into my Fermenter. So what would be a more reasonable efficiency in the fermenter? My only interest is getting more beer out of one brew day. The quality so far has been fine by me...

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Offline a10t2

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Re: Another efficiency thread
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2015, 03:35:17 pm »
So what would be a more reasonable efficiency in the fermenter?

Only you can answer that, because every brewery will have different losses from kettle to fermenter.

In terms of being able to predict efficiency, you need to use the pre- or post-boil readings (which are the same efficiency), because the kettle-to-fermenter losses don't change for different grain bills.
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Another efficiency thread
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2015, 03:51:14 pm »
This is why mash efficiency is the only number I care about. I know I lose .5 gallons to the kettle and .5 gallons to a given fermenter. All I care about is my preboil and og.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Another efficiency thread
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2015, 04:07:29 pm »
This is why mash efficiency is the only number I care about. I know I lose .5 gallons to the kettle and .5 gallons to a given fermenter. All I care about is my preboil and og.

Same here.
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Offline johnnyb

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Re: Another efficiency thread
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2015, 05:42:21 pm »
Yes, mash efficiency for me too. But sometimes we have conversations and people are talking about different things.

I think if we were all brewing commercially, that's when brewhouse efficiency really becomes important in order to understand costs.

Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Another efficiency thread
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2015, 08:34:46 pm »
Are your comments based on measuring efficiency at the end of the process (based on gravity points at the end of the boil) or based on gravity points preboil?

Those would be the same. Sugars aren't created or destroyed in the boil, only concentrated.
The Law of Conservation of Sugars.  ;D
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Offline BrewHalla

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Re: Another efficiency thread
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2015, 08:08:58 pm »
A lot of things can effect efficiency. Batch sparge you will be doing great at 80% effeciency. The water you are using can be an issue. Imo stay away from impurity free water less you treat with gypsum as a min.  If you use tap water throw in a quarter tablet of camden or use whatever method you want to get the chlorine out else your efficiency will be down. Make sure you thoroughly stir at a min every 15 minutes and that you have no clumping.  Make sure you have fresh grain with a good grind.  Now the last thing to try is a protein rest at 120f for 20 minutes. When I started the protein rest for my wheat beers I saw a 10 efficiency  jump.