[HoosierBrew]

The company is advertising it as a hybrid, not a blend.

Hmm. Not quite the same.

[Thirsty_Monk]

I'm going to take a stab at a saison next. Do any of you saison experts use sugar to help push attenuation?

Here's my very simple recipe
12 lbs pils
2 oz midnight wheat (option, im brewing one with and one without)
Mash 90 min at 145

90 min boil
1/2 oz Magnum at 60
2 oz Mittelfruh in whirlpool starting at 180 for 20 min

Wy3724 starter, pitched at 80º freeride to 90º

I'm considering doing the darker one as is, then a second batch with no color addition and subbing a pound of cane sugar for a pound and a half of pils

Thoughs?

your mash temp might be just a little bit low. I would not go below 148 if you do single infusion mash.

[cascadesrunner]

I have gone both ways one this with good results.  Between the two, I prefer using wheat and don't worry about the clarity.  I have always used 3711 to this point.

[HoosierBrew]

your mash temp might be just a little bit low. I would not go below 148 if you do single infusion mash.

I don't know, Leos -  I've mashed a lot of saisons @ 147F for 90 - 100+ mins with great results. Hit OGs reliably, good clarity,etc.

[mchrispen]

Jim... I haven't explored in this fully yet, but comfortable with raw wheat to about 10% grist in saison. It's harder and harder to find these days. Plenty of flaked products at the LHBS. FYI,  it sucks to mill. You might soak it a bit before milling.

[klickitat jim]

Jim... I haven't explored in this fully yet, but comfortable with raw wheat to about 10% grist in saison. It's harder and harder to find these days. Plenty of flaked products at the LHBS. FYI,  it sucks to mill. You might soak it a bit before milling.

Thanks. I was wondering, I'll bet its like milling BBs. I might hold off and then try a second batch with wheat malt.

[klickitat jim]

I'm going to take a stab at a saison next. Do any of you saison experts use sugar to help push attenuation?

Here's my very simple recipe
12 lbs pils
2 oz midnight wheat (option, im brewing one with and one without)
Mash 90 min at 145

90 min boil
1/2 oz Magnum at 60
2 oz Mittelfruh in whirlpool starting at 180 for 20 min

Wy3724 starter, pitched at 80º freeride to 90º

I'm considering doing the darker one as is, then a second batch with no color addition and subbing a pound of cane sugar for a pound and a half of pils

Thoughs?

your mash temp might be just a little bit low. I would not go below 148 if you do single infusion mash.

Leos, can you share more on this? I didn't think 3º would make much difference. I'm not hung up on 145 though. Really curious what problems you are thinking I might have.

[Thirsty_Monk]

There is no scientific reason to my recommendation. I have never mashed that low. You are still in Beta rest area.

It just looks like that you will not complete conversion.

If you are set on 145F for 90 min then step it up to 150F for 20 min just to make sure.

[theoman]

+1 on oats an no sugar. My last saison had oats and rye and it was freakin' delicious. Belle Saison got it plenty dry.

[klickitat jim]

There is no scientific reason to my recommendation. I have never mashed that low. You are still in Beta rest area.

It just looks like that you will not complete conversion.

If you are set on 145F for 90 min then step it up to 150F for 20 min just to make sure.

Ok cool. I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. I'm not stuck on 145. I'll bump it up a few.

[morticaixavier]

Go with some raw wheat if you can get it. you could even toast it a bit. then cook  it the night before or overnight in the slow cooker. then get it to mash temp and add it right in. if you cook it long enough it will gelantenize all the starch which doesn't happen well at 148 in the mash without grinding the wheat to flour.

Saison is one style where I feel you can get a bit more complex with it. I like a flaked or malted or raw non-barley grain, sometimes two, and some flavorfull sugar. If I'm brewing it fairly big (>1.070 say) and I dind't have really characterful sugar available I might add some table sugar but I would more likely try to get some sugar within a few days of pitching yeast and then add it to the fermenter. This is a good way to use honey in saison as well, add it after fermentation has slowed to help preserve a bit of honey flavor/aroma.

[homoeccentricus]

If I'm not mistaken Saison Dupont is made with 100% pils malt, no wheat and no sugar...

[denny]

I'm going to take a stab at a saison next. Do any of you saison experts use sugar to help push attenuation?

Here's my very simple recipe
12 lbs pils
2 oz midnight wheat (option, im brewing one with and one without)
Mash 90 min at 145

90 min boil
1/2 oz Magnum at 60
2 oz Mittelfruh in whirlpool starting at 180 for 20 min

Wy3724 starter, pitched at 80º freeride to 90º

I'm considering doing the darker one as is, then a second batch with no color addition and subbing a pound of cane sugar for a pound and a half of pils

Thoughs?

Jim, have you looked at Drew's article?  http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/2499/MJzym08_Saisons.pdf  He's kinda a master of saison.

[dbeechum]

I also got bored and decided to write this up:

A Guide to Saison and Saison Yeasts

[HoosierBrew]

I also got bored and decided to write this up:

A Guide to Saison and Saison Yeasts

Good info, Drew.  Thanks !