[larsmm]

It sounds like you've been pretty thorough in chasing this down.  I think you've gotten some good advice here, but you may have exhausted almost everything we can offer.  Trying to diagnose the problem without seeing, tasting, and smelling the problem is near impossible.

I say it comes down to a process of elimination.  What remains consistent amongst all the batches that have been contaminated?  It sounds like two things: 1) the brewing/fermenting location and 2) the equipment.

Change one or the other.  Then change the other.

I would recommend brewing small batches for these tests, if you can, to save money and heartache.

I'm actually interested in solve my problem. So I insist. I'm trying to give you all the information I have, and I realise it's so difficult to solve this kind of problems without testing, smelling... Furthermore, I'm getting tons of information and help from you and nobody knows who I am. So I'm really grateful for your knowledge and time.

I've been talking to some homebrewers for the last months (before landing in this forum) and I've followed their advices and, till the moment, I haven't found a solution yet. Most of their advices are just the same than yours. I've already done it. I've already said in this thread I'm going to brew outside next time, maybe next week, using the stuff I've got right now. If I get healthy beer, the problem is located in the brewplace and then I should find a treatment fot the place. If not, I should replace most of my equipment. I'm gonna do it, believe me, but give me time, please. I'd like to brew every day, but I have to work, take care of my family... like every body. I started the thread yesterday or two days ago so I haven't had the chance of practice your advices.

Edit: I bought Stat San yesterday.

I love beer. I love brewing. And it's so frustrating get a s*** once, and once again, and once again... So let me apologize if I seem a bit impatient.

Last question: what do you think about ozone to sanitize?

Thanks a lot.

[larsmm]

You could have a lacto bug causing these issues, I just don't know how it could be getting in your beer.  I'd recommend getting a decent pH meter and recording samples (measured at room temperature) of your mash, sparge, post boil, and periodically throughout fermentation.  I ferment in a very small chest freezer which is temp controlled.  If I open that door, stick my head in and breathe the co2 can just about knock me down and burns the nostrils.  Keep this in mind.

And how many time does it take to eliminate that? Does it taste sour?

[duboman]

I appreciate the detailed summary.

Thus is obviously a tough one. I'd start by getting some new buckets to ferment in and toss the old ones. If 6ou can get either Star San or Iodiphor for sanitizing pick some up and ditch all the other cleaners and sanitizers you are using. Pick up PBW or Oxy Clean for cleaning.

Cold side process appears to be where you have the issue. Start by cleaning and sanitizing the new buckets and lids, airlocks and all tubing, etc that comes into play from chilling to fermenter with the products I suggested.

Check your brew space and sanitize with Lysol or similar and be sure any air sources are not introducing contaminants

Once the wort is in primary and fermenting, leave it alone until you are ready to check for FG. Use cheap vodka in the airlock.

Don't worry about weird smells during fermentation, yeast can do that, its the finished product product that counts!

Hope this helps:) sorry to have jumped on ya, cheers!

[JT]

I wouldn't describe early fermentation as sour, but it isn't great either.  Although "green apple" can be a descriptor of young beer.  The co2 production slows down as fermentation stops, however co2 is heavier than air so it will basically lay on top of your beer in the carboy, which is a good thing as it prevents oxidation.  pH measurements will help you determine where and when your wort/beer pH is dropping, perhaps it is too acidic coming right out of the mash, which would point to other issues with ingredients and/or chemicals.  Some pH reduction is normal of course. 

If I can make a suggestion here: brew a batch of beer with extract and distilled water instead of all grain.  There are factors in all grain such as tannin extraction that could be mistaken for sour.  My wild ass guess is that you're tasting tannin extraction and possibly acetaldehyde while smelling co2.  I could be wrong but with all the beer you're dumping it is definitely worth a shot.

[ScottBeh]

How long are your mash steps?

[larsmm]

How long are your mash steps?

I mash in a simple step

[Slowbrew]

How long are your mash steps?

I mash in a simple step

+1  - Typically 60 minutes.

The recipe you posted doesn't look out of the ordinary.  Nothing in it should cause the sourness you are getting.

Paul

[ynotbrusum]

I no longer rack in my basement because I have sour beer there and I rack the sours there.  The clean beers go upstairs or in the garage for racking and Itry to be as sanitary as possible with them.  My guess is that your fermentation area is highly contaminated and that racking in that environment exposes your beer to wild yeast and bacteria that are problematic to your intended clean beer.  Try fermenting elsewhere ad with super clean equipment (perhaps new?).  I bet you will get a different result.  Just speculating, of course, but it is worth a try.

[larsmm]

I appreciate the detailed summary.

Thus is obviously a tough one. I'd start by getting some new buckets to ferment in and toss the old ones. If 6ou can get either Star San or Iodiphor for sanitizing pick some up and ditch all the other cleaners and sanitizers you are using. Pick up PBW or Oxy Clean for cleaning.

Cold side process appears to be where you have the issue. Start by cleaning and sanitizing the new buckets and lids, airlocks and all tubing, etc that comes into play from chilling to fermenter with the products I suggested.

Check your brew space and sanitize with Lysol or similar and be sure any air sources are not introducing contaminants

Once the wort is in primary and fermenting, leave it alone until you are ready to check for FG. Use cheap vodka in the airlock.

Don't worry about weird smells during fermentation, yeast can do that, its the finished product product that counts!

Hope this helps:) sorry to have jumped on ya, cheers!

Althogh I've already tried with new ferments, there's another one new waiting for the next brewday.

Star San and Iodiphor weren't easy to buy here, but now I've found a place where I can buy Star San and today I'm going to receive a bottle I ordered two days ago. Any aditional advice in the use of Star San? Do you think I can spray Star San solution on the walls and any other surface of the brewplace as window, door...? I think I'm gonna take a shower with that 

This is the first time I hear something about Lysol and searching in the web I've read that could be dangerous for our health. How can I manage it in order to avoid any kind of problem?

Some times I could notice the acid odor with the fermenter sealed, just breathing so close of the blow off. So the contamination source hasn't to be curiosity. But next time I'm gonna leave it for at least two weeks before doing anything.

Thank you very much for all your advices. Thanks a lot.

[theoman]

Star San and Iodiphor weren't easy to buy here, but now I've found a place where I can buy Star San and today I'm going to receive a bottle I ordered two days ago.

Just an aside - if you can get ChemiPro Oxi, you should be able to get ChemiPro Acid. It's basically Brouwland's version of Star San. I've been using it for years.

[larsmm]

I no longer rack in my basement because I have sour beer there and I rack the sours there.  The clean beers go upstairs or in the garage for racking and Itry to be as sanitary as possible with them.  My guess is that your fermentation area is highly contaminated and that racking in that environment exposes your beer to wild yeast and bacteria that are problematic to your intended clean beer.  Try fermenting elsewhere ad with super clean equipment (perhaps new?).  I bet you will get a different result.  Just speculating, of course, but it is worth a try.

My brew place is a small "building" I asked to build next to my house. The place is divided in two rooms: one for the heater system of the house, and the other one, bigger (about 130 square ft) is the brew place and also the place where my wife set her favorite gadget: the washing machine. It vibrates!!! (please, please, please, don't kill me, it's a really bad joke, I love women, even mine). Inside the house my wife doesn't allow me to brew, so looking for a new place would be almost impossible. That's the reason I'm looking for something that cleans the atmosphere of the room; and now I'm trying with ozone.

Nest week it's expected to have a nice weather in my home town so I'll brew outside and set the fermenter inside the house (I have to camouflage it in order to avoid my wife kills me). I let you know.

[larsmm]

Star San and Iodiphor weren't easy to buy here, but now I've found a place where I can buy Star San and today I'm going to receive a bottle I ordered two days ago.

Just an aside - if you can get ChemiPro Oxi, you should be able to get ChemiPro Acid. It's basically Brouwland's version of Star San. I've been using it for years.

Thank you. Two days ago I could by Star San so I don't need a version. I think I'm gonna receive it during the day.

[duboman]

I appreciate the detailed summary.

Thus is obviously a tough one. I'd start by getting some new buckets to ferment in and toss the old ones. If 6ou can get either Star San or Iodiphor for sanitizing pick some up and ditch all the other cleaners and sanitizers you are using. Pick up PBW or Oxy Clean for cleaning.

Cold side process appears to be where you have the issue. Start by cleaning and sanitizing the new buckets and lids, airlocks and all tubing, etc that comes into play from chilling to fermenter with the products I suggested.

Check your brew space and sanitize with Lysol or similar and be sure any air sources are not introducing contaminants

Once the wort is in primary and fermenting, leave it alone until you are ready to check for FG. Use cheap vodka in the airlock.

Don't worry about weird smells during fermentation, yeast can do that, its the finished product product that counts!

Hope this helps:) sorry to have jumped on ya, cheers!

Althogh I've already tried with new ferments, there's another one new waiting for the next brewday.

Star San and Iodiphor weren't easy to buy here, but now I've found a place where I can buy Star San and today I'm going to receive a bottle I ordered two days ago. Any aditional advice in the use of Star San? Do you think I can spray Star San solution on the walls and any other surface of the brewplace as window, door...? I think I'm gonna take a shower with that 

This is the first time I hear something about Lysol and searching in the web I've read that could be dangerous for our health. How can I manage it in order to avoid any kind of problem?

Some times I could notice the acid odor with the fermenter sealed, just breathing so close of the blow off. So the contamination source hasn't to be curiosity. But next time I'm gonna leave it for at least two weeks before doing anything.

Thank you very much for all your advices. Thanks a lot.

Lysol is a branded disinfectant that is used widely here in the States, including hospitals and is used to disinfect all surfaces from bacteria and viruses alike, not sure what is bad about it? I would think at this point it couldn't hurt giving it a try. Anyways, I would remove all your brewing equipment from the space and spray the aerosol throughout. Allow to dissipate a day. While all the brewing equipment is out, thoroughly clean with PBW or Oxy soak, especially everything that is on the cold side of operations, rinse well and then when you are ready to brew use the star san to sanitize just before use. Star San is diluted 1oz per 5 gallons and is most effective wet, don't fear the foam!

Star San is handy to also have in a spray bottle for a quick spray of anything during the brewing process. Hopefully these suggestions help!

[larsmm]

I appreciate the detailed summary.

Thus is obviously a tough one. I'd start by getting some new buckets to ferment in and toss the old ones. If 6ou can get either Star San or Iodiphor for sanitizing pick some up and ditch all the other cleaners and sanitizers you are using. Pick up PBW or Oxy Clean for cleaning.

Cold side process appears to be where you have the issue. Start by cleaning and sanitizing the new buckets and lids, airlocks and all tubing, etc that comes into play from chilling to fermenter with the products I suggested.

Check your brew space and sanitize with Lysol or similar and be sure any air sources are not introducing contaminants

Once the wort is in primary and fermenting, leave it alone until you are ready to check for FG. Use cheap vodka in the airlock.

Don't worry about weird smells during fermentation, yeast can do that, its the finished product product that counts!

Hope this helps:) sorry to have jumped on ya, cheers!

Althogh I've already tried with new ferments, there's another one new waiting for the next brewday.

Star San and Iodiphor weren't easy to buy here, but now I've found a place where I can buy Star San and today I'm going to receive a bottle I ordered two days ago. Any aditional advice in the use of Star San? Do you think I can spray Star San solution on the walls and any other surface of the brewplace as window, door...? I think I'm gonna take a shower with that 

This is the first time I hear something about Lysol and searching in the web I've read that could be dangerous for our health. How can I manage it in order to avoid any kind of problem?

Some times I could notice the acid odor with the fermenter sealed, just breathing so close of the blow off. So the contamination source hasn't to be curiosity. But next time I'm gonna leave it for at least two weeks before doing anything.

Thank you very much for all your advices. Thanks a lot.

Lysol is a branded disinfectant that is used widely here in the States, including hospitals and is used to disinfect all surfaces from bacteria and viruses alike, not sure what is bad about it? I would think at this point it couldn't hurt giving it a try. Anyways, I would remove all your brewing equipment from the space and spray the aerosol throughout. Allow to dissipate a day. While all the brewing equipment is out, thoroughly clean with PBW or Oxy soak, especially everything that is on the cold side of operations, rinse well and then when you are ready to brew use the star san to sanitize just before use. Star San is diluted 1oz per 5 gallons and is most effective wet, don't fear the foam!

Star San is handy to also have in a spray bottle for a quick spray of anything during the brewing process. Hopefully these suggestions help!

I've asked for more information in order to get Lysol online. I've just received Star San, so as soon as I arrive at home I'm having a shower, 

Thank you very much for your help.

[Stevie]

If you can't get Lysol, I'm sure you can get something similar. What do you use to clean your kitchen counters and bathroom?