[duboman]

If you can't get Lysol, I'm sure you can get something similar. What do you use to clean your kitchen counters and bathroom?

+1, I'm sure you have some sort of general aerosol disinfectant available to you that would be similar.

[larsmm]

If you can't get Lysol, I'm sure you can get something similar. What do you use to clean your kitchen counters and bathroom?

+1, I'm sure you have some sort of general aerosol disinfectant available to you that would be similar.

I can also use bleach.

[S. cerevisiae]

Not only clean. After cleanning it with boiling water, then NaOH hot solution and then Acetic acid with hydrogene peroxide  solution, I put the plate chillet into a oven for 36 hours at 250°F. If any bacteria can survive that treatment, has to be McGiver's.

Two hundred and fifty degrees Fahrenheit/121C will not cut it when dry sterilizing an item.  Two hundred and fifty degrees Fahrenheit/121C is the sterilization temperature for moist heat at 29.7 pounds per square inch (~205 kPa) absolute pressure.  Water does not boil until the temperature reaches 250F/121C at 29.7  pounds per square inch (psi).  Dry sterilization should occur at a minimum of 320F/160C, and the minimum suggested processing time at that temperature is 120 minutes.  I dry sterilize the borosilicate petri dishes that I use to make plates at 350F/177C for ninety minutes (I autoclave the media in a separate covered container). 

The time to kill spores increases rapidly after the temperature drops below 121C for moist heat at 29 PSI and 160C for dry heat.  For example, one F-value is equal to the amount of moist heat treatment that occurs at 250F/121C in one minute at 29.7 psi.  One minute at 212F/100C is equal to 0.0077 F-values.    That 38F drop in temperature results in 130-fold increase in processing time.  The normal moist heat sterilization time at 250F/121C is 15 minutes.  It would take 130 * 15 = 1950 minutes of processing time at 212F/100C to achieve the same level of sterility.  That's why we autoclave wort and media to render it absolutely sterile.

With that said, my bet is the infection is being pitched with the culture.  That's the easiest place to introduce a infection that can take over a batch.

[larsmm]

Not only clean. After cleanning it with boiling water, then NaOH hot solution and then Acetic acid with hydrogene peroxide  solution, I put the plate chillet into a oven for 36 hours at 250°F. If any bacteria can survive that treatment, has to be McGiver's.

Two hundred and fifty degrees Fahrenheit/121C will not cut it when dry sterilizing an item.  Two hundred and fifty degrees Fahrenheit/121C is the sterilization temperature for moist heat at 29.7 pounds per square inch (~205 kPa) absolute pressure.  Water does not boil until the temperature reaches 250F/121C at 29.7  pounds per square inch (psi).  Dry sterilization should occur at a minimum of 320F/160C, and the minimum suggested processing time at that temperature is 120 minutes.  I dry sterilize the borosilicate petri dishes that I use to make plates at 350F/177C for ninety minutes (I autoclave the media in a separate covered container). 

The time to kill spores increases rapidly after the temperature drops below 121C for moist heat at 29 PSI and 160C for dry heat.  For example, one F-value is equal to the amount of moist heat treatment that occurs at 250F/121C in one minute at 29.7 psi.  One minute at 212F/100C is equal to 0.0077 F-values.    That 38F drop in temperature results in 130-fold increase in processing time.  The normal moist heat sterilization time at 250F/121C is 15 minutes.  It would take 130 * 15 = 1950 minutes of processing time at 212F/100C to achieve the same level of sterility.  That's why we autoclave wort and media to render it absolutely sterile.

With that said, my bet is the infection is being pitched with the culture.  That's the easiest place to introduce a infection that can take over a batch.

Do you mean that 36 hours (2160 minutes) at 250 ºF (dry heat) are not enough to sterilize an item? How many hours should I kept valves, pipes and chiller plate in an oven at that temperature?

Other cuestion, could anyone tell me if it's worth bying this ph-metre: http://shop.hannainst.com/hi98103-checker-ph-tester.html?id=031003&ProdCode=HI%252098103?

Thank you very much.

[ynotbrusum]

That pH meter seems fine enough, but remember to cool all samples to the proper temperature for an accurate reading.

I think S Cerevisiae has it right about the introduction of the contaminant at the pitch.  Are you boiling and then cooling the water that you hydrate the dry yeast in?  If not, that could be your issue.  The tap water may be the source of contamination.  Even so, I would expect the yeast to outcompete the bad bugs initially.  Try sprinkling the dry yeast on top of the wort to skip the hydration.  That may work to avoid cold side water contamination.

[larsmm]

That pH meter seems fine enough, but remember to cool all samples to the proper temperature for an accurate reading.

I think S Cerevisiae has it right about the introduction of the contaminant at the pitch.  Are you boiling and then cooling the water that you hydrate the dry yeast in?  If not, that could be your issue.  The tap water may be the source of contamination.  Even so, I would expect the yeast to outcompete the bad bugs initially.  Try sprinkling the dry yeast on top of the wort to skip the hydration.  That may work to avoid cold side water contamination.

I boil tap water for hydrate the yeast, a couple of minutes. Then I put a film over the pot and let the water get colder. Maybe I should be better to boil more time. Next time I'm gonna put the dry yeast straight to the wort, skipping a "dangerous" step. Thank you.

[ynotbrusum]

Boiling usually suffices for killing the bacteria in water, though it may require a few minutes with persistent microbes?

Good luck - after this much effort, you deserve to be rewarded with a good homebrew from your system.

[JT]

Not only clean. After cleanning it with boiling water, then NaOH hot solution and then Acetic acid with hydrogene peroxide  solution, I put the plate chillet into a oven for 36 hours at 250°F. If any bacteria can survive that treatment, has to be McGiver's.

Two hundred and fifty degrees Fahrenheit/121C will not cut it when dry sterilizing an item.  Two hundred and fifty degrees Fahrenheit/121C is the sterilization temperature for moist heat at 29.7 pounds per square inch (~205 kPa) absolute pressure.  Water does not boil until the temperature reaches 250F/121C at 29.7  pounds per square inch (psi).  Dry sterilization should occur at a minimum of 320F/160C, and the minimum suggested processing time at that temperature is 120 minutes.  I dry sterilize the borosilicate petri dishes that I use to make plates at 350F/177C for ninety minutes (I autoclave the media in a separate covered container). 

The time to kill spores increases rapidly after the temperature drops below 121C for moist heat at 29 PSI and 160C for dry heat.  For example, one F-value is equal to the amount of moist heat treatment that occurs at 250F/121C in one minute at 29.7 psi.  One minute at 212F/100C is equal to 0.0077 F-values.    That 38F drop in temperature results in 130-fold increase in processing time.  The normal moist heat sterilization time at 250F/121C is 15 minutes.  It would take 130 * 15 = 1950 minutes of processing time at 212F/100C to achieve the same level of sterility.  That's why we autoclave wort and media to render it absolutely sterile.

With that said, my bet is the infection is being pitched with the culture.  That's the easiest place to introduce a infection that can take over a batch.

Do you mean that 36 hours (2160 minutes) at 250 ºF (dry heat) are not enough to sterilize an item? How many hours should I kept valves, pipes and chiller plate in an oven at that temperature?

Other cuestion, could anyone tell me if it's worth bying this ph-metre: http://shop.hannainst.com/hi98103-checker-ph-tester.html?id=031003&ProdCode=HI%252098103?

Thank you very much.

I don't have any experience with this meter, but don't forget to pick up some calibration packets.  Also read the manual as you'll want to store the probe in solution (electrode storage solution or the pH 4.0 solution).  Do not store in distilled water. 

[HobsonDrake]

I am impressed that you have gone this long and are still brewing. Good for you and one day you will look back and have a story to tell.

The one thing that I keep hearing is you are rinsing after cleaning. On your next brew day soak EVERYTHING that comes in contact with the wort after the boil in the Star San. At least two minutes. DO NOT RINSE ANYTHING after the soak. Just put it down on a towel that has been soaked Star San and wrung out. Let the soaked fermentor drip onto the towel upside down. Don't fear if there is any foam left over from the soak. It will not hurt the wort.

Wipe down any surface that you will be working on with the Star San. You joke about taking a shower in it, but I think that is extreme measures at this point. Not yet anyway

Not knowing what all is in and around your "brewhouse" be sure that there is no air movement during transfer of the wort. If it is windy outside when you do your next batch you may want to postpone until it is calm.

You have others that are brewing near you. No matter what happens on the next batch go through the full process of letting it ferment for at least two weeks (or three) then bottle it. After it has had two weeks to condition, share with your brewing friends and ask them what they think. Or what they taste that may be wrong. You may find that it isn't what you think it is or at least you may find someone who loves it and it will not all be a waste. And you will have a new best friend.

Good luck on hope that you get a drinkable batch.

 

[larsmm]

Boiling usually suffices for killing the bacteria in water, though it may require a few minutes with persistent microbes?

Good luck - after this much effort, you deserve to be rewarded with a good homebrew from your system.

Thank you for your wishes. Next Thursday I'm gonna brew and divide the batch in two fermenters. I'm gonna pitch one of then with re-hydrite yeast, following your advice (I´ll boil the water for at least five minutes). The other one, I'm gonna pitch with dry yeast straight from the package.

[larsmm]

I am impressed that you have gone this long and are still brewing. Good for you and one day you will look back and have a story to tell.

The one thing that I keep hearing is you are rinsing after cleaning. On your next brew day soak EVERYTHING that comes in contact with the wort after the boil in the Star San. At least two minutes. DO NOT RINSE ANYTHING after the soak. Just put it down on a towel that has been soaked Star San and wrung out. Let the soaked fermentor drip onto the towel upside down. Don't fear if there is any foam left over from the soak. It will not hurt the wort.

Wipe down any surface that you will be working on with the Star San. You joke about taking a shower in it, but I think that is extreme measures at this point. Not yet anyway

Not knowing what all is in and around your "brewhouse" be sure that there is no air movement during transfer of the wort. If it is windy outside when you do your next batch you may want to postpone until it is calm.

You have others that are brewing near you. No matter what happens on the next batch go through the full process of letting it ferment for at least two weeks (or three) then bottle it. After it has had two weeks to condition, share with your brewing friends and ask them what they think. Or what they taste that may be wrong. You may find that it isn't what you think it is or at least you may find someone who loves it and it will not all be a waste. And you will have a new best friend.

Good luck on hope that you get a drinkable batch.

Thanks a lot for your advices and you encouragement. My brewplace is becoming an operating room of a hospital.

Lot of guys in this forum have given me many advices. I'm gonna try to follow most of them and I'm sure my brewing process is going to improve a lot. I'm gonna be more patient and although acid smells and sour taste come in next batch I'll wait at least three - four weeks till botteling and then two aditional weeks in order to share "the elixir". I want to be sure that those smells and tastes come for a contamination. I'd like to be wrong, feel embarrased for all the lost beer during the last year but, at least, have my own beer available for me and my friends. I'll let you know. Thank you very much.

[larsmm]

Last Thursday I brewed. I had a pretty nice time with one of my best friends (who hasn't got any idea of brewing but encourages me each time) and I really enjoyed. I followed most of your advices, including avoid chemichals (NaOH, acetic acid...), shoot Star San to everywhere and be patient.

I divided the batch in two parts. In one of them I pitched Safale 04 directly from the package (11 g in 13 l). The other one was piched by re-hidrated Abbaye Belgian Ale Yeast (Danstar) (11 g in 12 l). Both of them were aerated by an aquiarium air pump, although instructions of Danstar says aeration is not necessary. I left the buckets in a room at 62-63 ºF. I couldn't check them till 24 hours after pitching and I saw high activity in blow-off of the bucket pitched with Safale 04, and just a layer of krausen in the other one. 24 hours later activity level kept in the first bucket and had increased a lot in the other one. 24 hours later krausen had desapeared in the Safale 04 bucket and activity in the other one kept as the previous day. Yesterday there wasn't almost any activity in both buckets. Today and on Saturday I'm gonna measure gravity and if there isn't any change I'm gonna put the Safale 04 bucket in the fridge for a week and then I'll bottle. Then I'll do the same with the other bucket (I'm not able to put both in the fridge simultaneously).

Yesterday I needed to check the bucket wiht Danstar yeast (before that, I shot Star San as Clint Eastwood) and took a picture. Although the quality of the picture is bad, I'd like to know if some one finds something strange in the beer. Thank you very much

Edit: I have some problems loading the picture so next reply by "pacmar" is mine from tapatalk.

[pacmar]

Having problems loading the picture. I attached from tapatalk

[majorvices]

The strangest thing I see is that you continue to worry about what your fermentation looks like. Seriously. Relax about that.

[Slowbrew]

The strangest thing I see is that you continue to worry about what your fermentation looks like. Seriously. Relax about that.

+1

Looks normal to me.  You really need to leave the bucket closed to maintain your "clean" environment in the fermentor.  It's like watching water boil, it doesn't go faster if you are watching.

Paul