[roguejim]

Does anyone use caravienne in their AIPA?  What percent?  How does it differ from light crystal?

[vista]

isn't it just vienna malt malted to like c20? that was my understanding of the caravienne and caramunich series.

[majorvices]

Cara Vienne is a crystal malt, so is cara munich. Treat Cara Vienne as a 20L crystal, Cara Munich as a 40-60L crystal depending on which one you get (I or II) I use caravienne it in my APA and IPA (and IIPA). I find the CaraVienne and CaraMunich malts to have less "sweetness" and more of a "maltiness" than regular American crystal though the differences are subtle The main reason I use it is because I brew a lot of German and Belgian styles and so I always have some on hand.

[gordonstrong]

I like using Belgian malts in American styles.  I agree that you'd use whatever you'd use for Crystal 20.  I wouldn't expect a lot of crystal malt in an American IPA anyway, so I wouldn't go more than 5% or so.  Maybe a half pound in a 5 gallon batch.

Caravienne gives a nice malty sweetness that I like in some styles; it's less sugary to my taste, so I think it works fairly well as a flavor enhancer.  If I were trying to boost the malt perception in a pale style, I might use some light Munich and some Caravienne.  Maybe 85% 2-row, 10% light Munich, 5% Caravienne.

If I were making it for myself, I'd skip it and just go with the 2-row/Munich mix, but I usually like my IPAs pale and dry.

Why are you adding it?  Are you looking for a certain flavor contribution, color, body, residual sweetness, or something else?  Every ingredient you use will have an effect, and you should know why you're using it.  If I knew your intent, I might be able to give you something more concrete.

[roguejim]

Thanks, Gordon, and everyone.

Well, I would like to introduce some low toastiness.  I'm trying to break out of the typical base+crystal box which, I admit, might not be the best idea.  In the end, I'd like for my AIPA to have some flavor component that might set it apart, yet not take it outside of the style guidelines.  I've usually used the SSOS grain bill in my AIPAs, varying the variety of hops.  So, perhaps if I could add a bit of low toastiness to that particular recipe, it would be a starting point for further experimentation.

[denny]

Maybe try a bit of biscuit, Victory, or Special Roast, Jim.

[gordonstrong]

Two ideas. Swap out some of the Maris Otter for Vienna malt. Try home toasting some of your base malt. Every time I've used special roast, it has given me an unpleasant acidity. OK, a bonus third idea. Try adding a little bit of aromatic. The quality of "toasty" is somewhat subjective. Many malts that have those flavors also have other flavors that you may or may not want.

[roguejim]

Two ideas. Swap out some of the Maris Otter for Vienna malt. Try home toasting some of your base malt. Every time I've used special roast, it has given me an unpleasant acidity. OK, a bonus third idea. Try adding a little bit of aromatic. The quality of "toasty" is somewhat subjective. Many malts that have those flavors also have other flavors that you may or may not want.

Okay, would you consider low, toasty notes in an AIPA to be a novelty, or perfectly acceptable, perhaps even desirable??

Have you ever tasted a "blue ribbon" AIPA that had toasty notes?