[chandlergr]

I am quite confused about the color combinations vienna, pilsner, and wheat malt lend to beer. Two beers I make are an american wheat and saison which have the same grains in different proportions such that the saison is a rich orange/gold color and the wheat is very pale/straw. However, the wheat beer actually has more vienna than the saison; since I assume most of the color in the saison is coming from the vienna, this really confuses me. How is the wheat so much paler even thoough it has a higher percentage of vienna? Where is the added color in the saison coming from? Does a higher percentage of wheat malt over pilsner malt make for a lighter color (I thought they had roughly the same SRM)? Am I making sense at all? (The OGs for the beers are similar and the malt percentages are below btw)

Saison %
Pilsner: 75
Malted Wheat: 15
Vienna: 10

Wheat %
Pilsner: 35
Malted Wheat: 50
Vienna: 15

[brulosopher]

Haziness can make a beer appear darker, in my experience.

[chandlergr]

thats a good point, but both beers tend to be very clear

[klickitat jim]

Boil time differences?

What are the gravities? Percentages are not enough info. In other words two 100% pils beers can be different colors if one is 1.040 and the other is 1.080

[chandlergr]

that makes sense; I said in the original post the OGs are comparable, but I was mistaken and the saison is actually quite stronger, about 20 points higher OG. Accordingly, the vienna weights are just about equal between the recipes. Higher percentage in the wheat but the wheat has lower OG, so the vienna addition about equals out. So you think it's simply more pilsner that can transform a straw beer to orange/gold? Would not expect that.

[chandlergr]

Also, boil times are equal (90 mins)

[klickitat jim]

Ya sure. If ten pounds of pils in one beer, but 12 pounds in beer number 2, beer number 2 will be 1.2 times darker.

[brulosopher]

Ya sure. If ten pounds of pils in one beer, but 12 pounds in beer number 2, beer number 2 will be 1.2 times darker.

This is what I think too

[chandlergr]

cool, thanks guys. Color increases linearly with respective malt weight, who knew

[mabrungard]

High mash or wort pH will increase beer color. pH is important to quality beer.

[brulosopher]

High mash or wort pH will increase beer color. pH is important to quality beer.

I'm learning it may be more important than most anything else, just short of sanitation and recipe.

[HoosierBrew]

High mash or wort pH will increase beer color. pH is important to quality beer.

I'm learning it may be more important than most anything else, just short of sanitation and recipe.

+1.  pH is huge. I didn't realize how big a difference it made until I started getting it right.

[brulosopher]

High mash or wort pH will increase beer color. pH is important to quality beer.

I'm learning it may be more important than most anything else, just short of sanitation and recipe.

+1.  pH is huge. I didn't realize how big a difference it made until I started getting it right.

So far, in my xBmts, it's the only variable that has produced statistically significant results. We have plenty more ideas in the chamber for this!

http://brulosophy.com/2015/04/06/water-chemistry-pt-1-mash-manipulation-exbeeriment-results/

[HoosierBrew]

High mash or wort pH will increase beer color. pH is important to quality beer.

I'm learning it may be more important than most anything else, just short of sanitation and recipe.

+1.  pH is huge. I didn't realize how big a difference it made until I started getting it right.

So far, in my xBmts, it's the only variable that has produced statistically significant results. We have plenty more ideas in the chamber for this!

http://brulosophy.com/2015/04/06/water-chemistry-pt-1-mash-manipulation-exbeeriment-results/

Pretty interesting. Nice work !