Author Topic: WLP001 fermented at lager temps?  (Read 2052 times)

Offline gmac

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WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« on: April 24, 2015, 02:32:28 AM »
I know I have seen this before but can't find it. My garage is about 55F or so these days, just a bit warmer than lager temps but not up around 65 or so where I would like it. I have a big pitch of 001 ready for a brew but I am trying to decide if I should do it as one 15 gal batch or try to find enough carboys to carry it all down into the basement.
Does anyone have experience using this yeast at these temps and will it attenuate out?  I realize it will ferment fairly cleanly anyway and my plan is for an APA with a decent hop load. Thoughts?

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2015, 02:53:27 AM »
I bet it would do fine just be careful not to have it go up and down too much. The down part being the trouble. Say for example that its about 75% done and has been around 55 for that time, a drop to 50-52 might cause it to quit. It would also be smart to try to finish up around 65-68 if you can.

Offline goschman

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Re: WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2015, 03:40:29 AM »
I have heard of us05 used successfully down to 50f so I think you will be fine. Pitch a lot of healthy yeast and maybe expect it to take longer to finish.
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Offline brulosopher

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WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2015, 04:27:56 AM »
I'm not a big user/fan of Chico, but I've heard it throws off peach-like character when fermented cooler than 62F. If ambient is 55F, you might expect exothermic heat to raise the temp of the fermenting beer to just about 62F... maybe pitch warm, around 70F, then place it out there?

Edit for clarification: I'd pitch at 70, let it ride in the cool garage for 2-3 days, then bring it indoors until it's finished.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 04:50:22 AM by brulosopher »

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2015, 04:33:06 AM »
Yes it will most likely be slower that low. I think what I would do is start if off at 55 in the garage, let it go a few days till its through the growth and flavor stage then bring it into the house and let it finish.

Offline gmac

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Re: WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2015, 10:50:12 AM »
Thanks guys. Problem is I can't carry a full 22 gal fermenter into the house so I either have to start and finish in the garage or put it into carboys and then I would just do it in the basement.

I should probably get a belt heater to put on it but I don't have time since I have a free day today to brew and need to make the most of my time.

Anyone actually done it?

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Re: WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2015, 11:03:24 AM »
I think you will need to raise the temp near the end or risk problems. I have had it actively fermenting at 45 degrees but let it warm back up into the 60s. I detected no off flavors. Do it, but put a heating pad of wrap it at the end to raise temp up.

Offline SiameseMoose

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Re: WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2015, 02:15:27 PM »
Bosmo’s Imperial Cream Ale (http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/bosmos-imperial-cream-ale/), which was the NHC beer in 2008, was fermented using 001 at 61°, and then lagered at 45°. No diacetyl rest was performed or needed. Rick DeBar, the pro brewer (now with Ommegang) who made it, later redid it for his brewpub with an even lower fermentation temperature, although I don't remember what the exact temp was. I think you'll be fine.
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Offline denny

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Re: WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2015, 03:44:15 PM »
I haven't tried it with 001, but I've run 1056 at about 55.  with enough healthy yeast and a long fermentation, I had no diacetyl issues.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2015, 03:56:31 PM »
Thanks guys. Problem is I can't carry a full 22 gal fermenter into the house so I either have to start and finish in the garage or put it into carboys and then I would just do it in the basement.

I should probably get a belt heater to put on it but I don't have time since I have a free day today to brew and need to make the most of my time.

Anyone actually done it?

can you find something within the next 4 or 5 days? you don't need the heat till then so you could start it at ambient and find some heat source before next wednesday.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2015, 06:40:22 PM »
Even just wrapping it in blankets will help here - surprisingly my lagers have worked out when late winter/early spring temps cause the garage chest to stay below 45, but the fermenters were wrapped to preserve the heat from fermentation to get the beer up to near 50 (per thermowell).  When really cold, I added a heat wrap, but that isn't a great idea with some lager yeasts I have found. You should be fine if you can prevent big swings in temperature.
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Offline gmac

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Re: WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2015, 08:44:23 PM »
I have gone and purchased 25 feet of siphon tubing and am going to siphon the 15 gallons into the fermenter in the basement through the basement window. Not enough support for doing it cool so I am adapting my methods.

Offline duboman

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Re: WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2015, 09:22:57 PM »
I just added dry hops to my IPA that I ferment with 05, it sat at 60 and took 8 days to finish, no off flavors or fruit flavors at all, no diacetyl, very clean and finished where I wanted it, just slower than had it been a bit warmer. My only concern in your situation is the fluctuation of temps, that could cause issues.
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Re: WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2015, 11:09:05 PM »
Siebel BRY 96 (a.k.a. "Chico," Wyeast 1056, White Labs WLP001, and US-05) should be good down to 50F if enough yeast is pitched or fermentation is allowed to start before lowering the fermentation temperature down to the low to mid-50s.  After all, it was used by Ballantine in the old Schalk Brothers Brewery to make their "beer" product for a very long time.  On the other hand, Ballantine's ale strain (a.k.a. Siebel BRY 97, Anchor Liberty Ale, Wyeast 1272, White Labs WLP051, and Lallemand BRY 97) prefers 68F to 60F.

To bring Brulosopher up to speed, G.W. Lange made two deposits before Ballantine closed.  These strains were deposited in the USDA ARS NRRL Culture Collection as well as the Siebel Culture Collection (or Siebel acquired the strains from the NRRL Collection).

NRRL Y-7407  (Siebel BRY 96)
  Accession numbers in other collections: Lange 2
  Isolated from (substrate): BR, Beer pitching yeast
  Substrate location: Ballantine Brewery, New Jersey, USA
  Comments: ID from 26S renal partial sequences.
 
NRRL Y-7408 (Siebel BRY 97)
  Accession numbers in other collections: Lange 4
  Isolated from (substrate): BR, Ale pitching yeast
  Substrate location: Ballantine Brewery, New Jersey, USA
  Comments: ID from 26S rDNA partial sequences

Cultures with sequential accession numbers are often from the same brewery or brewery culture collection.  It is of no small importance that Lallemand chose to issue BRY 97 instead of BRY 96 when it offered an American-style ale yeast culture.  Lallemand owns the Siebel Institute; therefore, they could have easily offered a dry form of BRY 96.

Now, BRY 96 has an attribute that makes it fairly unique in the world of brewing yeast strains; namely, it is a diploid1.  A diploid yeast strain has two sets of 16 chromosomes.  Brewing strains tend to be polyploids because polyploids tend to be more genetically stable.  Brewing strains are usually triploids (3 x 16), tetraploids (4 x 16), or aneuploids, which is a condition where the total number of chromosomes is not evenly divisible by 16. 

The use of Saccharomyces cerevisiae (S. cerevisiae) strains to make lager beer is not as uncommon as one would believe. I have a production lager strain in my bank from an old West Coast brewery that is actually a diploid S. cerevisiae strain.  NCYC 1322 is a lager strain from an Irish brewery that is a 100% match for S. cerevisiae.

NCYC 1332 (https://catalogue.ncyc.co.uk/saccharomyces-bayanus-1322)

Information
    Non-flocculent.
    Sequence analysis gives 100% match to Saccharomyces cerevisiae type strain.

Depositor
    Irish brewery

Deposit Name
    Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Saccharomyces uvarum.

Month of deposit
    Unknown

Deposit Year
     1973

Habitat
     Lager production strain



1.  Labeled as GSY708 in the following paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2556262/pdf/1610.pdf
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 11:21:58 PM by S. cerevisiae »

Offline denny

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Re: WLP001 fermented at lager temps?
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2015, 04:23:58 PM »
I'm not a big user/fan of Chico, but I've heard it throws off peach-like character when fermented cooler than 62F. If ambient is 55F, you might expect exothermic heat to raise the temp of the fermenting beer to just about 62F... maybe pitch warm, around 70F, then place it out there?

Edit for clarification: I'd pitch at 70, let it ride in the cool garage for 2-3 days, then bring it indoors until it's finished.

I've had that happen with US05, but never with 1056.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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